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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
Release id #139885 : Captain Dynamo +11D [crazy hack]
i wonder what exactly constitutes a "crazy hack" and why releases that appear to be regular cracks (according to csdb terms of course) - with the only exception that they dont seem to follow certain "scene rules" (which mind you, are not, and never have been, relevant for csdb) are tagged as such. if i start calling my release "awesome hack" in my intros, will they get tagged as such too? :) |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
TBH, I wondered myself quite often what's so crazy about these hacks... |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Yeah. Good question. I tagged the later ones because that seemed to be the common thing. The crazy part is the overtraining I guess, but then again a lot more other cracks from other groups should be tagged as well, which is just stupid. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
exactly what i mean - doing this kind of stuff isnt new afterall. either have some precise rules and apply them on all releases, or remove that silly tag alltogether. who started it anyway? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Research that, then bring torches and stakes!!!11 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
just check a few of the 2011 hackersoft releases. as if it wasnt obvious =) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2218 |
I think the "+XY" tag with a high enough no. makes the point of "crazy" overtraining clear enough :)
Super G-Man +52D [crazy hack] (record if I'm not mistaken)
PS/Edit: And yeah, it's been done before
Vixen +6HD
Not that 6 is very high no. but changing hair color does not really give you any advantage, at least not in this game ;) |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
Quote: I think the "+XY" tag with a high enough no. makes the point of "crazy" overtraining clear enough :)
Super G-Man +52D [crazy hack] (record if I'm not mistaken)
PS/Edit: And yeah, it's been done before
Vixen +6HD
Not that 6 is very high no. but changing hair color does not really give you any advantage, at least not in this game ;)
well that crazy hack stuff belongs to the lemon forum,
besides that I don't see any scene-releation to that hackersoft stuff, I get grey hair from those double-tripple-quadruple cheating with even more silly options.
It might be a great hobby to do such stuff but for me it is not the right place to keep this stuff.
@ryk:
well, it is arguable if wanderer releases count as scenereleases, but at least he just counts 6 trainers and the hairdo is an extra for free :-D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
Quote:it is arguable if wanderer releases count as scenereleases
certainly not. they might be lame, but that doesnt matter at all. if it would, then a lot of the crap released today wouldnt be counted either - which is precisely the reason for the hackersoft stuff being here too. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
Quote: just check a few of the 2011 hackersoft releases. as if it wasnt obvious =)
Just look around at some of the newer releases to find out who invented the tag. The usage of this tag just started earlier this year IIRC. I just pulled it through to the older ones as none of the mods changed it for some time even the release was in the latest releases list.
To define what is scene related you need to define what is/was "the scene" today and in the past. IMO the meaning has changed in some way from an elite circle in the past to the few leftovers caring about C64 today. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
so if i start tagging random stuff as [awesome hack] you'll "pull it through" as well? oh dear |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
If you were still an official Mod and therefore responsible for holding up the standards, maybe. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
LOL |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
for once I agree with Groppie.. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
I like the [crazy hack] 'tag', makes it easier to ignore crapware :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
if [crazy hack] stands for "crapware", then you guys still have a hell of work to do to tag everything properly =) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
/me tags groepaz :P |
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Roysterini
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 13 |
I feel I should mention though that Vinny doesn't actually want these hacks to be uploaded to CSDB. Even the text with each release says so. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
thats irrelevant, csdb collects what is released, not what wants to be here. |
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alwyz
Registered: Dec 2011
Posts: 31 |
Maybe I'm the only one who sees the obvious here, but the term "crazy hack" obviously is used because it's a specific "series" of releases by Vinny. Now, because it's posted with the term crazy hack in brackets, that constitutes some other meaning on csdb. So, ok, it shouldn't be in brackets, and perhaps the term crazy hack should be in parenthesis or something else. Semantics.
As far as Groepaz' point that man made "quality standards" does not reflect eligibility to csdb, thank you for making that point clear. There's, in my opinion, way too many "sceners" with "rules" (i.e. free time on their hands) judging what is good and what is crap, and the truth is, personal opinions about quality means nothing to me and should mean nothing to csdb. I want to have access to EVERYTHING, and use csdb as a guide to what exists. I hope everything that does exist ends up here. I'll download what i want and leave what i don't. Freedom of choice. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Good last point. Vinny actually name his releases "ghostbusters crazy hack" so we could do the same, compare that to other releases like Commando arcade or ultima remastered. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
actually there ARE rules regarding quality when it comes to cracks at least - but noone gives a damn about them. thats just another thing that still has to be fixed here :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
Quote: actually there ARE rules regarding quality when it comes to cracks at least - but noone gives a damn about them. thats just another thing that still has to be fixed here :)
The rules are fossils since the days CSDb was used as a release site, and we have not had the time to change them - the main focus is to be an archive, and if we are going to have the goal to cover as close to 100% of the C64 scene activities as possible we can't say no to releases, BUT (as Groepaz probably means) we do need rules to clarify how to name releases etc. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
as said, noone cares. either fix the rules, or apply them :=) |
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Roysterini
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 13 |
If nobody cares, do nothing. |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
I think "wise" rules are very necessary.
The most important point is to make/keep this database transparent!
"crazy hack" is no real quality standard generally.
But there is no explicit rule, which consider this or similar terms.
I would prefer "exact" rules for name conventions (standards), like existing rules.
Transparency should be as objective as it helps for finding/sorting releases. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
and please, don't give me "we have not had the time to change them". thats just a ridiculous excuse. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
No time to answer that, groepaz. Sorry. |
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ThunderBlade
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 77 |
What about [jewel] ? Is that defined? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
no, thats similar nonsense of course :) |
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ThunderBlade
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 77 |
"Crazy Hack" and "Jewel" both seem like 'group-internal categories', invented designations, and should not be morphed into 'CSDb tags' in brackets.
Of course everyone can name their releases as they want. So I'd suggest removing those non-tags like [crazy hack] and [jewel] and put these in the "aka" field instead.
E.g. what now is "Captain Dynamo +11D [crazy hack]" would become "Captain Dynamo +11D" in its name and "Captain Dynamo +11D (crazy hack)" in the aka field. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
yup, that makes much more sense than the current practise at least |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
+1 for thunderblade, excellent suggestion |
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Fix
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 54 |
+1 what Thunderblade wrote. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2578 |
+1 |
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The Shadow
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 304 |
What Thunderblade said is the best solution. Seeing [crazy hack] in the main title is not esthetically pleasing. Many feel this way. Using the A.K.A. is ideal because it preserves how the entry author feels about the release. It also gives a nice alternative to the entry name. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
Same goes for demos then: Round brackets for unofficial tags.
Demo of the Year 2014 [102% final version] |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
since when are there "official tags"? |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
I thought e.g. [pal/ntsc] is one. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
i'm sure you did |
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Vinny started using the crazy hack label when people told him he was using the numbering system wrong. They are "crazy" because of the unusual things the modes do to the code.
Then when he was told his releases were not worthy of being part of the scene, he repeatedly asked for them not to be uploaded here.
The releases keep being uploaded.
So, either his releases are not good enough for here, in which case you don't need to worry about what they are called.
Or you keep the name it was released under to "preserve the integrity of the database".
Oh, and Vinny's cracks often have the advantage of being able to turn invulnerability or extras on & off during the game. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
you are missing the point :) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
new rule: -1 point if you use square brackets in a release :)
[lol]
ehm, ignore me... |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2578 |
[ignoresZeSmasher] |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4720 |
[] |
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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Quote: you are missing the point :)
I don't think I am.
Would you go back and retrospectively change the name of Tower Power 92% by Camelot?
Tower Power 92%
Or is it because it is Vinny?
EITHER this is a database preserving data, in which case release names stay as they were.
OR this is a private club with arbitrary rules, in which case make up whatever you like. Call Dutch Breeze "Quanco Day part 73" and have done with it. |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
What's bad about finding/creating some "necessary" rules at all? This issue don't need drama imho! ;)
It has nothing to do with personal controversy! Maybe i am wrong ... :) |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Do tags belong in the title field in the first place?
And what if I make a game called +5D? |
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celticdesign
Registered: Oct 2005
Posts: 149 |
+1 for Thunderblade as I had nearly the same thoughts.
Tag what you want... Imo it's just a release name and the release type "C64 crack" is fine for me.
Oh, are tags linked in any way?
Not sure if mentioned before but what about adding release type sub-categories? Something like Jewel, Re-crack, Trainer, Tool types and so on? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
what about finally implementing the stuff that was discussed ages ago (which solves all this and more)? you'll find it in the mod forum.... =P |
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Shine
Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 346 |
Perff will do it ... maybe not today! ;) He will strike back with a very innovative "userfriendly" design! You only need to wait a couple of days! :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11347 |
reminder |
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Flavioweb
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 463 |
As in gpz reminder:
+m more trainer-functions, which can be changed while game is playing
Captain Dynamo +11MD
should be the correct one here...
I suppose. |
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Roysterini
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 13 |
Quoting Groepazyou are missing the point :)
I don't think Merman was missing any points, he was just making one.
I really don't see why this is so important. No need to get any knickers in a twist over such trivialities.
It doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. |
