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2024-06-18 15:22

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588

C64GFX.com - Tags

Hey,

I wanted to see whether anyone had any thoughts about tags/tagging on C64GFX.com?

I switched from using "graphic types" to tags a while ago .. so now, instead of MultiColour Interlace, you'll see "MC, Interlace" or something like that as tags.

I've then looked to add tags for types (eg. logo, font). And for additional elements - "sprites" for example.

But I'd like to open this up..

I need to somehow balance "what would be perfect" with "what can we reasonably expect to be able to add accurately".

"Sprites" are a good example. On CSDb, you'll often see images that are in the side borders - and these could be tagged as "MultiColour + Sprites". With tags, we could specify exactly that the borders are open perhaps?

More than this (sorry for my rambling), it gets complicated with "mixed" images. "MC" on CSDb typically means bitmap MC.. but what of 4-colour charset based MC? And what about "mixed" mode where you have MC on but some chars could be drawn in HI mode (due to having D800 colour 0-7).

AND.. "MC" as a tag by itself is ALSO confusing .. there could be a raster split half way down the screen, there could be a mix of MC and HI sprites, etc etc.

Aaaaaaaaaargh. C64 gfx are, or can be, complex :-)

2024-06-18 16:27

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 242

I think #AI, #conversion would have their place.

2024-06-18 20:26

jmin

Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 2

How about having multiple main types of tags such as "Bitmap", "CharSet", "Sprites", "Raster", "Ghostbytes", "Borders" and each of them have their own "Kicker" tags for defining granular details, e.g. "Bitmap" could have "Multicolor", "HiRes", "FLI" and so on, "Sprites" could have "Multicolor", "HiRes", "Multiplexed" and "Extended", "CharSet" is "Multicolor", "PETSCII", "ECM" and so on.

"Mixed mode" could be derived automatically by checking if there's more than one main tag assigned and a drill down search should be easy (easier?) to implement too.

Those tags are just for how the gfx works technically.

Not sure if describing how the gfx was made (as Jetboy suggested) should be mixed with those set of tags. IMHO it sounds like a cool idea, but it's very, very subjective as well as hard to map the road from initial scribble on paper over to paper has been scanned via and then converted (as in resized/rotated/...) in order to have it some where either as reference pic or starting point for tweaking. It's a lot harder to come up with waterproof definitions for those and would just end up in endless discussions. I'd say having the option add workstages would be neat but I guess unfeasible with c64gfx.com's scope.

Edit:
More Main types: "Format" (as in size > DirArt, logo, panel, fullscreen, multiscreen), "Mode" (e.g. still, animated, interactive)

2024-06-19 00:11

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588

Some good ideas. Likely would take a long long time to gather all the data though.

I wonder what people might eventually want to search for… eg.:-

“All hi-res 2x2 fonts” (2x2 meaning 2x2 chars, ie. 16-16px approx)
“All MC charset logos”
“Sprite fonts”
“MC interlace logos”
“DIR Art”
“Tall scrolling pics”
“Sideborder pics”

Etc etc.

I’m really not sure at this stage.

2024-06-19 08:29

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 242

Some of those are easy to tag with a script.
I would do that to reduce amount of work on you.
Ie. if all pixel pairs are the same color it is most likely multicolor.
Ie. if there is graphics on the borders, then it's most likely borders. I would differentiate sideborder and upper/lower border. There is also edge case of rasters.

There could be more rules like this applied automatically. Then for those that script is not sure you could edit them by hand.

Another option would be to leverage userbase, and let people tag images with whatever they see fit. All user tags could go through moderation if you want to prevent vandalism.

Maybe an option on the page where you could report errors to any given entry would make sense.

2024-06-19 11:11

Hoogo

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 103

Why I browse Gfx collections:
- I want to enjoy, and maybe I wonder if a gfx includes some nice code fx.
- Maybe I look for test pictures in some format, like Koala, FLI, Charset...

Therefore, I would include tags code/noCode, standard/noStandard

Koala would include noCode + standard
UIFLI would include code + standard
MC+Sprites would include noCode + noStandard

2024-06-20 15:04

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588

Quote: Why I browse Gfx collections:
- I want to enjoy, and maybe I wonder if a gfx includes some nice code fx.
- Maybe I look for test pictures in some format, like Koala, FLI, Charset...

Therefore, I would include tags code/noCode, standard/noStandard

Koala would include noCode + standard
UIFLI would include code + standard
MC+Sprites would include noCode + noStandard

Ah, so with "code" vs "nocode" I guess you mean that the graphics can be displayed standalone with or without code?

That's a good idea.

In theory it would be nice to be able to break graphics up into their various layers .. showing sprites on one layer, raster colours on another, etc etc ... but realistically I wouldn't have time for that: unless something like VICE or C64 Debugger could be used to quickly output such in a nice format that can be parsed and processed etc.

When ripping graphics I spend half my time just setting filenames, re-browsing to my output folder (every restart of VICE, the last screenshot save location is sadly forgotten), etc etc .. if VICE could remember, that would save me a lot of time. But I'm running on Windows so ......................

2024-06-20 16:40

jmin

Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 2

Ha! Had a split-up view in mind too with toggeling the various bits of a picture by de/activating its tags but thought asking for it was just silly due it to being almost impossible to do automatically.

Maybe something like that could be added by the artists themselves similar to providing workstages. Would be a nice "Here's how it's done"-bonus.

2024-06-21 15:06

Slajerek

Registered: May 2015
Posts: 63

Retro Debugger has a feature to save individual layers of displayed image already (sprites, bitmap). Btw. Raistlin I sent you proposal of such format some time ago but as far as I remember you did not respond ;)

Here it is (draft WIP): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cCsNA8-JwTFSCfGsyA9_-uKUvyp..

2024-06-22 06:45

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588

Quote: Retro Debugger has a feature to save individual layers of displayed image already (sprites, bitmap). Btw. Raistlin I sent you proposal of such format some time ago but as far as I remember you did not respond ;)

Here it is (draft WIP): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cCsNA8-JwTFSCfGsyA9_-uKUvyp..

Ah yes, we did chat about this - sorry, I didn’t realise you’d actually implemented it! I’ll take a look :-) .. and thanks! :-)

2024-06-27 05:05

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 588

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