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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
Releases with "YF", "C.C.S" and "JT" in sysline.
Hi board!
I need a little input from you guys regarding the sceneiness of ceartain releses.
I stumble across a great deal of games that have no intro(cracktro), no info in the game of who cracked and packed it. I dont simply not put them up here coz they are not scene releases.
Then we have games with "YF", "C.C.S" and "JT" in the sysline.
YF=Yeti factory i suppose but would YF put out a crack without a proper intro? My take is that someone just use their packer. I dont upload them either for the moment.
Same goes to "C.C.S" witch I think refers to either "Computerbrains" OR "Cleveland Cracking Service". But same here is that someone who just use a packer from them or is them legimit releases from onw of the groups?
Any takes on this? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3137 |
> My take is that someone just use their packer.
Exactly. Don't trust just syslines. Anyone could have made them with known personalized-sysline packers. |
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Fred
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 284 |
The packers from C.C.S. can be found here:
Maxshort V5.2
Maxshort V4.0
Maxshorter
Executer
Executer V2.0
Anybody could have used it since the packers were spread. If you find a crack with these packers, make sure to check if in the game text changes are made with C.C.S. or Computerbrains or if an intro of them is used.
If you quickly want to know which unpacker is used, then make use of:
Unp64 V2.35
During unpacking it will mention which known packer is used. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2493 |
What about JT then?
Here is an old thread about the topic, which gives a good list by Rough of presumably authentic cracker sys lines:
https://csdb.dk/forums/?roomid=7&topicid=18362#96925 |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Syslines should never be used, period. Before the days of intros some other type of branding was put in the game, usually on the title screen. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
Quoting FungusSyslines should never be used, period. Before the days of intros some other type of branding was put in the game, usually on the title screen.
Yes, but alot of crackers just simply put their name or signature in the sys-line. So I disagree with you. HOWEVER the sysline should be used with great caution. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2493 |
What icon said. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
What the smart people like Fungus say. |
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Fred
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 284 |
Smart people take syslines with caution, period. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting FredSmart people take syslines with caution, period. Smart people don't make assumptions, not even with caution. |
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Fred
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 284 |
Assumptions are inevitable. Even credits in scroll text are sometimes wrong. Every info should be handled with caution and interpreted with common sense.
If you know the history of the group, if they made/released their own packer/linker/coder to the public, what time period they were active, what kind of coder/cracker/hacker/lamer they were, all the tiny details, then in some cases sysline info can be taken seriously.
Some uploaders have no idea and just assign sceners/groups to any info that is there which may lead to wrong assumptions. Therefore it is important to check uploads and that we document the info that we know so people get the right info and don't make the same mistakes over and over. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
A sysline is no proof, period. |
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Fred
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 284 |
Quote: A sysline is no proof, period.
You're right and I never said that. It can be used in combination with other things to proof things. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2493 |
Nothing is a proof. Everybody can rip a Triad intro, alter the scroll text and link it in front of a game. So we should allow only the verified original crackers or their verified group mates at release time to add cracks to the db.
Oh, and ", period." Of course. Just to make sure it is clear that what I am writing is the absolute scene law, and everybody else with a differing opinion is a stupid lamer. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting FredYou're right and I never said that. It can be used in combination with other things to proof things. Don't say 'proof', when you (probably) mean 'infer'. It's still an assumption, though. |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting bugjam [..] everybody else with a differing opinion is a stupid lamer. You don't have to mention this, we already know you're one of "those" moderators @ CSDb. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2493 |
Quote: Quoting bugjam [..] everybody else with a differing opinion is a stupid lamer. You don't have to mention this, we already know you're one of "those" moderators @ CSDb.
Meaning what exactly, if I may ask? |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Yes but ripping, altering and linking an intro is a lot of work compared to some lamer who downloaded a cruncher from random place and compressed a file they found on some disk from who knows where.
Do you really think someone would go to such extremes to fake a release?
Get real. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2493 |
Do you really think that every cracker, especially in the very early days, was so vain or even got the idea to make an intro for his release?
Get real.
The tool to check is available with unp64.
There _was_ a scene before you, you know. And for quite some time. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Like I said, in the old days there was a thing called BRANDING, which was done on every release I ever had from those times.
You should try to keep fake releases out of the db, if there is no undeniable proof, then it should be ignored. And a sysline is hardly undeniable proof.
Stop with your strawman arguments. This is simple logic.
And yes, EVERY CRACKER was VERY Vain, making a name for yourself was the whole point! |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
In fact, this should not even be up for public debate, it is a moderation issue. You should take it private and vote on it. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
Fake releases and recracks should absolutely be uploaded here as they are a part of the scene history as everything else BUT they should be labeled accordingly. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
With that said games just packed with a public cruncher and with no other names or groups attached to it should NOT be uploaded. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Sweet, let me transfer a bunch of 1982-1985 games and pack them with ancient crunchers/packers and upload them then. Clearly fake releases and part of scene history.
This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever debated. Is this lemon? I think I'm confused on what forum I'm on. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
I agree with Fungus (who should pay Mr.Ammo a beer for the "smart", hihi): Icon's question should be addressed to the moderators.
Ian's and Bugjam's point of views are known already, rest should vote and give Icon an answer about what to do with the stuff he found. final task for Moloch: pls close topic b4 new year :) |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 89 |
@Fungus: Was that what I said? Realy? Now I recognize the old Fungus. Welcome, havent missed you a bit! Instead of wasting our time with irrelevant, sarcastic rants. Try to actual read what peoples actualy have said in the thread. Jesus... |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
It's just so stupid I can't help but be sarcastic.
Not sure why I bother tbh, I was trying to be objective but just more and more stupid arguments that make no sense.
What else can you do when people just make stuff up rather than be reasonable, it's the scene as usual. |
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Radd Maxx
Registered: Mar 2018
Posts: 63 |
Quote: Yes but ripping, altering and linking an intro is a lot of work compared to some lamer who downloaded a cruncher from random place and compressed a file they found on some disk from who knows where.
Do you really think someone would go to such extremes to fake a release?
Get real.
Let me present to you The Chosen One. A very prolific fake releaser who did this very same thing. Some people even provided tools for this express purpose: Radical Right Wingers.
TCO even created entirely new title screens for games to make them look like something new. Some of these games are in Gamebase. I cant even guess what was going on with that guy. He put more work into some of these fakes than a lot of people did with real releases. This level of dedication certainly isnt common, but, it did happen.
As for keeping these out of the Db: Imagine that we delete these then 10 years later someone re-ups all these "missing" Impact releases and then I (if I'm still kicking) have to prove they're fake again, etc. I've been using the Db since 2006 or so to help me ID stuff, I know I want as much info as possible.
Reading here about the ego of crackers, it reminds me of the Shogun who only put his credits in REM lines, specifically saying that he didnt want to be another egotistical cracker. Running through my collection recently made me wonder at the amount of uncredited cracks I've ended up with over the years. I probably have more anonymous cracks than "real" ones even ones with modern protection from 87-89. They cant all have had their intros ripped off of them, there must have been some people out there that didnt want to be known.
Finally, it is true that sometimes the only crack credit that exist is in the SYS line. USUALLY it will say something specific, like "CRACKED BY ______". Special-Soft Crackings Incorporated's SCI 666 springs to mind as a "reliable" sys line, usually when you see this in sys, they did it. But there are few like this.
If it's more obscure than that you can run it through unp64 or go through the memory after decrunch and see if there's any clues. Also, some crunching programs are SO obscure that the only one who ever used them is the one who wrote them. Is it worth trying to figure all this shit out though? Ehhhhhh...maybe?? There's plenty out there to catalog that's not so clouded in mystery, so dont get too wrapped up in trying to figure out what SYS 2076 IT WAS ME I DID IT (I just saw this yesterday!) means.
Most of the time these anonymous crunches were just used as fodder for spread disks. So, it's entirely possible that someone from the 1001 Crew used a 1001 cruncher to pack that old game you found, but it wasnt "released", it was just thrown on a spread disk as something cool, a throw-back, a joke or whatever.
(btw Fungus this wasnt all directed at you or anything, I'm just trying to provide additonal perspective and you got me thinking about TCO and the rabbit hole of recracks and fake imports he led me down) |
