Log inRegister an accountBrowse CSDbHelp & documentationFacts & StatisticsThe forumsAvailable RSS-feeds on CSDbSupport CSDb Commodore 64 Scene Database
 Welcome to our latest new user Sharakmir ! (Registered 2017-12-13) You are not logged in 
CSDb User Forums


Forums > CSDb Discussions > HDMI upscaling on a budget
2017-11-27 13:05
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
HDMI upscaling on a budget

I love my CRT to death, but sometimes a more compact option is needed. Does anyone know of an HDMI upscaler that doesn't cost $400, outputs 50 Hz without artifacts or dropping frames, and shows aspect correct 4:3 with black bars on a 16:9 display? The $30 converters on eBay are crap. Specifically, has anyone tried these KanexPro converters? http://www.kanexpro.com/converters/composite/
2017-11-27 13:51
dano

Registered: Jul 2004
Posts: 113
I SO would love to get a proper info here myself, as my beamer just not does a good job at upscaling a pixel pixture to HDMI.

The best solution i knew in germany was those converter that f.e. Ligawo sold. There were said to be ok. Yet i don't know if they properly do 50Hz. And they seem not to be sold anymore. Ligawo answered my request with the Info, that the converter chips just can't properly handle the lowres c64 image.

Upon my asking on facebook all boiled down to the expensive Framemeister. As either options not provide a proper FullHD image or are not available properly.

Have not heard about those KanexPro devices, so looking forward there myself.
2017-11-27 17:54
Clarence

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 105
I'd be also interested in this. Several years ago we tried at least 5-6 of the budget video/svideo to hdmi converters and all had some kind of frame tearing problem. Maybe the situation is better now.
What is also worth to consider, some of the converter boxes added considerable amount of lag (some added close to a second). For example to play games 'realtime' it is an important aspect as well.
2017-11-28 08:52
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
Yeah, good point, latency also has to be taken into account. Some latency can be fine if your main purpose is watching demos and composing or pixeling, but for gaming you don't want more than a frame or two.
2017-11-28 13:48
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
you dont even want one frame, unless all you are playing is adventure games :)
2017-11-28 16:25
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
I have my CRT for when it really counts, so I can live with < 50 ms. Less is better, and if the OSSC had S-video input I'd buy it in a heartbeat.
2017-11-30 21:04
Tao

Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 106
My ideal would be some way to feed things into an eDP; that way I finally could build myself SX-128 out of my 128D :)
2017-12-03 01:59
ZeSmasher

Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 251
so the only solution would be rob a bank and get ze framemeister?
2017-12-04 14:34
CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 2481
Framemeister is the thing that does it? 50HZ and all that? No flaws?
2017-12-04 15:09
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4137
yep
2017-12-04 15:34
Mr. SID

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 340
I'd see if somebody who's into designing/manufacturing hardware could do a simpler solution. There's a lot of money in a cheap Framemeister clone.
The fact that there doesn't exist one yet, makes me think that it's actually not feasible...
2017-12-04 16:22
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
thing is that it wont get much "simpler". and if you cant just take an off the shelf IC (which those $30 solutions do that work like crap) it wont get cheaper either :)
2017-12-04 18:45
Deev

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 152
Quote: Framemeister is the thing that does it? 50HZ and all that? No flaws?

It gives by far the best picture I've seen from a C64 on a modern display, with smooth 50hz motion.

It can be *slightly* buggy on PAL sources. Once it's set up, you're fine, but every now and again I've found changing some of the options on a PAL source can lock up the unit.

I got one because I have a number of old consoles/computers that I wanted to hook up to my TV and I think it's been a good purchase. In particular, it handles 240P RGB extremely well.
2017-12-04 21:24
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 919
One would think that affordable ADC+FPGA/CPLD circuits for this purpose might be around the corner...
2017-12-04 22:34
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
Oh it's quite doable, and indeed the components are out there. It's above the level of most hobbyist engineers though (myself included), and commercially it's unlikely to be profitable, so... here we are.
2017-12-04 23:27
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
krill: sure, and R&D usually comes for free :)
2017-12-04 23:33
JackAsser

Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1257
Quote: Oh it's quite doable, and indeed the components are out there. It's above the level of most hobbyist engineers though (myself included), and commercially it's unlikely to be profitable, so... here we are.

LFT will rescue us, no worries. Right Linus? :D
2017-12-04 23:57
Deev

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 152
There's the OSSC which is an open source alternative (https://github.com/marqs85/ossc), but at the minute, it doesn't have s-video input. So, perhaps all we need is a good s-video to RGB transcoder? :)

Pre-assembled units are still fairly costly, though anyone with the skills could build their own for the price of the components.
2017-12-05 09:05
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
Since the OSSC does everything right and is open source, it'd be the perfect project to build upon. Converting from S-video to RGB is unfortunately one of those things that seems like they should be simple, but turn out to be complex. The old analog chips that do it are hard to source and hard to use. This converter can be found for about $80, but I don't know if it's any good.

The OSSC has everything you need to do it though, and they have already solved most of the important problems like generating proper HDMI and getting the hardware built. Integrating something like the TVP5150AM1 seems plausible.
2017-12-05 09:23
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
Bought a cheap Extron IN1508 on eBay: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222736297025

Here's hoping it doesn't suck.
2017-12-05 11:08
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 919
Quoting Groepaz
krill: sure, and R&D usually comes for free :)
I was thinking of some hobbyist design, not a commercial device. As in, affordable components + open source.
2017-12-05 12:34
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
even then it doesnt come for free. time spent on it directly translates into money lost for most people. and most people wouldnt want to solder an FPGA on prototype boards either, so someone needs to be paid for that too. (the cost of the components is almost never the relevant factor for this kind of stuff, btw)
2017-12-05 13:15
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 919
Yeah, and DIL/DIP FPGA boards haven't been invented yet. :)
2017-12-05 13:17
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
yeah, put it on a breadboard with through hole components and voila there is your high quality HF device \o/
2017-12-05 23:30
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 919
Oh, you :) My point was you can get ready-made PCBs with FPGAs on them for cheap, and can solder your well-shielded HF cable to them alright (and don't forget to remove the little antenna on that hole) signal integrity should be good enough. After all, USB2/3 and whatnot pin headers exist.

But anyways, hope springs eternal and all that, re: original topic. :)
2017-12-06 01:47
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8317
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygDLpQfsCag
2017-12-06 09:27
MagerValp

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 901
Quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygDLpQfsCag

Whoa that looks perfect! Here's hoping it'll do PAL as well.

http://www.retrotink.com/#Products
RefreshSubscribe to this thread:

You need to be logged in to post in the forum.

Search the forum:
Search   for   in  
All times are CET.
Search CSDb
Advanced
Users Online
CRT
nightshift
Guests online: 41
Top Demos
1 Uncensored  (9.7)
2 Edge of Disgrace  (9.7)
3 Coma Light 13  (9.6)
4 The Shores of Reflec..  (9.6)
5 Lunatico  (9.6)
6 Comaland 100%  (9.5)
7 Incoherent Nightmare  (9.5)
8 Wonderland XII  (9.5)
9 Comaland  (9.5)
10 Wonderland XIII  (9.5)
Top onefile Demos
1 Pandemoniac Part 2 o..  (9.6)
2 FMX Music Demo  (9.6)
3 Daah, Those Acid Pil..  (9.5)
4 Dawnfall V1.1  (9.5)
5 Synthesis  (9.5)
6 Dawnfall  (9.4)
7 Treu Love [reu]  (9.4)
8 Field Sort  (9.4)
9 KAOS 64  (9.3)
10 One-Der  (9.2)
Top Groups
1 Oxyron  (9.4)
2 Booze Design  (9.4)
3 Censor Design  (9.3)
4 Crest  (9.3)
5 The Judges  (9.3)
Top Coders
1 Axis  (9.8)
2 Crossbow  (9.8)
3 Graham  (9.8)
4 HCL  (9.8)
5 Lft  (9.7)

Home - Disclaimer
Copyright © No Name 2001-2017
Page generated in: 0.793 sec.