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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1033 |
X2016 Competitions: Your Input Wanted!
The 28th of october is still far away but getting closer and closer. The organizers have been getting busy and are now well underway to get everything sorted out for another smashing X!
Since entry delivery and running the compos at X14 went quite smooth and voting is now done in realtime, we believe we may have room for 1 or 2 more (small/fun) c64 competitions. Like a PETSCII compo or a 4k compo, or maybe you guys have an idea?
Or perhaps you think the straightforward demo/music/gfx compos are enough.
Let us know :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11128 |
thats what happens if you babble too much :o) |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting PerplexIt has been suggested to Gideon to add functionality for swapping disk images on the 1541Ultimate by poking custom registers, and he's positive to that idea. Let's hope it makes it into a firmware update before long.
While I'm sure this feature is well intended, I think it solves the wrong problem.
Flip parts are often designed to run for an arbitrary amount of time, and then transition to the next part when the new diskside has been detected. It's the last remnant of megademo interactivity in the age of highly polished trackmos---and the consequence is that we get to see some of the most elaborate "press space"-style transitions ever conceived.
With the proposed 1541U feature, the demo somehow needs to trigger the transition automatically, which takes away the interactivity. But only when running on 1541U! On a real setup, there is still a need for a robust user-timed transition, which takes a lot of work to implement. But with an Ultimate plugged in, this work will not be showcased, because the demo will trigger the switch at the perfect moment. Alternatively, the part needs to say e.g. "press space" when running on a 1541U and "flip disk" when running on a 1541.
There is then a risk that coders (and graphicians) will optimise for one of these scenarios, presumably the compo setup, to the detriment of the other. That is the path to platform fragmentation.
The only reasonable approach, as far as the 1541U is concerned, is to allow a disk flip to be triggered by the user---not the demo---without disturbing the running effect. There are three physical buttons on the cartridge, and I can't see why it shouldn't be possible to make one of them act as a flip switch, if so configured. |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1056 |
Pro tip: run 1541U on one C64 with the IEC cable connected to the other C64. You have 6581 and 8580 set up anyway. |
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ruk
Registered: Jan 2012
Posts: 43 |
While the 1541 Ultimate is very convenient (I use mine frequently), I would like to think that a more vanilla setup would be the fairest in a compo. A cold booted C-64 with a properly tested and maintained C-1541. No cartridges or fast-loaders whatsoever. Flipping disk is an actual, physical action :)
It would be up to the demomaker to deliver a production that actually runs on real hardware, without initial long and boring loading times. Failing to do so would most likely lead to a lower score.
Allowing for some specialised memory registers and you have a 1541U-demo, not a C64 demo. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1033 |
so I was gonna say...
Thanks for all your input! I will now discuss the possibilities with the other orgs and we'll publish final compo setup asap. I'd say its pretty safe to already get more familiar with PETSCII ;)
I also like the onefile award ($0801-$cfff), especially when not splitting the demo compo.
The Chameleon already has support for proper diskflipping, so that's an option. However we will try to run (multidisk) demos from a real 1541, but it's not a promise just yet. |
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Perplex
Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 254 |
While I agree that optimizing demos for custom hardware functionality can lead to a tilted playing field, it could work well if done the right way. For instance, you can say "flip disk" and show some effect, then detect a manual disk change as normal, but it addition to that, poke the custom registers when a key is pressed, not before. |
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lft
Registered: Jul 2007
Posts: 369 |
Quoting BurglarThe Chameleon already has support for proper diskflipping, so that's an option.
As long as you're running the demo on the real CPU inside the C64 and using the video output from the real VIC. That is still possible with the Chameleon, right? |
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CeriX
Registered: Nov 2014
Posts: 11 |
Quote: so I was gonna say...
Thanks for all your input! I will now discuss the possibilities with the other orgs and we'll publish final compo setup asap. I'd say its pretty safe to already get more familiar with PETSCII ;)
I also like the onefile award ($0801-$cfff), especially when not splitting the demo compo.
The Chameleon already has support for proper diskflipping, so that's an option. However we will try to run (multidisk) demos from a real 1541, but it's not a promise just yet.
Huh?
No crunching allowed for the onefile award?
(Or why the restriction to $801-$cfff?) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3136 |
Who said no crunching allowed? the limitation for onefilers is that load range should be 0801-cfff max (202 blocks) loadable from a stock c64 without particular loaders. Crunch like there's no tomorrow. |
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null
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2006
Posts: 645 |
Quote: Quoting BurglarThe Chameleon already has support for proper diskflipping, so that's an option.
As long as you're running the demo on the real CPU inside the C64 and using the video output from the real VIC. That is still possible with the Chameleon, right?
I'm assuming they won't run the chameleon in standalone mode, so yes. |
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