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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
ALLEGED "New Double Resolution Double Color graphics mode"
<Post edited by moderator on 5/11-2023 13:06>
I think I have discovered a new double resolution double color mode from Motion Blur technology, that is different than the sub-pixel demo described here:
Princess in the Kingdom of Subpixels
Try these user mode playable demos:
Fluid City Artifact Remix:
http://relationalframework.com/ArtifactFluidCity.prg
Defender III Artifact Remix:
http://relationalframework.com/defenderiiiartie.prg
You may see extra color from standard chroma artifacting if you have NTSC depending on your VIC-II model, but you will see two shades of blue from luma artifacting on PAL or NTSC tube Televisions or CRT Monitors with no flicker, accompanied by sub pixels 1/2 the size of the panning increment for the doubled frames creating the motion blur effect.
These phantom pixels and shades happen only on the retina, and you will not see them in your peripheral vision.
This technique has application for stock C64 scrolling games that use the text mode to create semi-graphics. It can also work with higher resolutions but the REU or SuperCPU may be required for the processing time and RAM. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
Quote: Here is a frame capture of two consecutive frames of the defender program:
There you can clearly see that you just move the lower part 16 pixels / 2 chars every frame to the left. There is nothing "double resolution" or "double color" about it ...
Quoting spider-jQuoting Mr SQLWhat do you mean by skipping soft scrolling /hardscroll?
You have to use real hardware to see the Fx.
I mean you're only doing hardscroll (copying full chars from right to left instead of also using $D016 softscroll register) as far as I can see.
I also didn't find any sign of "doubled frames".
I wouldn't consider the standard behaviour of an CRT monitor in this case an "Fx". *shrug*
No you missed two frames, each of the frames you posted is doubled for four frames total.
Because each frame is doubled it causes the motion blur effect - the mind expects to see movement 1/2 the increment used so it creates a phantom 8 pixel increment creating the extra resolution and reduced luma intensity where we expect the image to be. It's an optical illusion.
You can see this effect appear and vanish capturing frames in Fluid City with the throttle on. Pushing the stick to the right will show no Fx and two frames exactly as you illustrated, each 16 pixels apart.
Otherwise you will get doubled frames like Defender III creating motion blur, ie two frames in the same place and then two frames 16 pixels apart.
This effect has limited use but it is fun for visual illusion Fx and in scrolling games. It would be interesting to see this done with the 320 hi-res mode using the Super CPU. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Quote:Because each frame is doubled it causes the motion blur effect - the mind expects to see movement 1/2 the increment used so it creates a phantom 8 pixel increment creating the extra resolution and reduced luma intensity where we expect the image to be.
What do you have to smoke to make this happen, and how much? |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 450 |
Quoting Mr SQLNo you missed two frames, each of the frames you posted is doubled for four frames total.
I don't think so. It's not that I manually pressed pause or something. I recorded an 50 FPS lossless ZMBV with VICE and extracted the frames via
ffmpeg -i defender.avi -t 3 -vf fps=50 output%02d.png
resulting in exactly 150 PNGs with t = 3 seconds. So there is no miscalculating here.
It's only the background graphics in the top row that move every 4th frame.
If you think the ZMBV recording method has any flaw, please provide another 50 FPS video as proof which you consider to show the "correct" result. |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
Quote: Quote:Because each frame is doubled it causes the motion blur effect - the mind expects to see movement 1/2 the increment used so it creates a phantom 8 pixel increment creating the extra resolution and reduced luma intensity where we expect the image to be.
What do you have to smoke to make this happen, and how much?
lol just watch the Fx on CRT or Tube Television. Try playing for a more immersive experience if you don't see the optical illusion. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 450 |
@Mr SQL:
Okay, I double checked and have to correct myself on the bottom graphics: they move 16 px every 2nd frame and the top gfx every 4th frame like I said. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3141 |
It's funny to see you people even reply to this smoke seller. Just ignore him. It's just another Harry Potter |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
Quote: Quoting Mr SQLNo you missed two frames, each of the frames you posted is doubled for four frames total.
I don't think so. It's not that I manually pressed pause or something. I recorded an 50 FPS lossless ZMBV with VICE and extracted the frames via
ffmpeg -i defender.avi -t 3 -vf fps=50 output%02d.png
resulting in exactly 150 PNGs with t = 3 seconds. So there is no miscalculating here.
It's only the background graphics in the top row that move every 4th frame.
If you think the ZMBV recording method has any flaw, please provide another 50 FPS video as proof which you consider to show the "correct" result.
You are mistaken, you can try the experiment with Fluid City and you will see the difference.
Here's the reason why:
You are watching the video at 50 Hz, hence 50 frames per second are generated on PAL Tube Television or CRT.
You are seeing 25 FPS encoded in Defender III so that is two doubled frames at 50 FPS (two frames in the same place). This is revealed by using the throttle in Fluid City which doubles the speed to 50 FPS, therein all frames are 16 px apart.
Most importantly you cannot use VICE - you have to use real hardware and CRT to see the optical illusion clearly:
One reason the Fx are only partially visible in VICE may have to do with CRT progressive scan fields (2 fields x 2 doubled frames) helping to create the illusion, I'm really not sure.
Let me know if this makes more sense now. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 450 |
Quoting Mr SQLYou are mistaken, you can try the experiment with Fluid City and you will see the difference.
The difference to what? To defender? Of course: I said I was talking about the defender part so far :-)
Quoting Mr SQLYou are seeing 25 FPS encoded in Defender III so that is two doubled frames at 50 FPS (two frames in the same place).
Yep. I already corrected myself about that in my last post. Lower part moves every 2nd frame – upper part every 4th frame.
Quoting Mr SQLMost importantly you cannot use VICE - you have to use real hardware and CRT to see the optical illusion clearly
As a programmer I'm not interested in what you "see" on VICE or a real machine + CRT, but what technique is being used to achieve what you "see" ;-) And from what I analyzed you still didn't make clear what is so special with just hardscrolling different areas of the screen at different frame speeds. Technically these are single color hires PETSCII screens moving from right to left.
You may have fun watching that go on a CRT*. But it is technically not a "New Double Resolution Double Color graphics mode" as the thread title suggests.
Have a nice evening!
Cheers,
spider.
*btw.: I think the ghosting effect on modern screens is also fun to watch :-) |
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Mr SQL
Registered: Feb 2023
Posts: 122 |
Quote: Quoting Mr SQLYou are mistaken, you can try the experiment with Fluid City and you will see the difference.
The difference to what? To defender? Of course: I said I was talking about the defender part so far :-)
Quoting Mr SQLYou are seeing 25 FPS encoded in Defender III so that is two doubled frames at 50 FPS (two frames in the same place).
Yep. I already corrected myself about that in my last post. Lower part moves every 2nd frame – upper part every 4th frame.
Quoting Mr SQLMost importantly you cannot use VICE - you have to use real hardware and CRT to see the optical illusion clearly
As a programmer I'm not interested in what you "see" on VICE or a real machine + CRT, but what technique is being used to achieve what you "see" ;-) And from what I analyzed you still didn't make clear what is so special with just hardscrolling different areas of the screen at different frame speeds. Technically these are single color hires PETSCII screens moving from right to left.
You may have fun watching that go on a CRT*. But it is technically not a "New Double Resolution Double Color graphics mode" as the thread title suggests.
Have a nice evening!
Cheers,
spider.
*btw.: I think the ghosting effect on modern screens is also fun to watch :-)
Yes I didn't see your post because we wrote at the same time.
Agree the effect does look nice in VICE too but it is blurry and you cannot see the extra color or the extra pixels clearly delineated like on CRT.
You may want to explore these Fx in Fluid City, because you can turn them on and off with the throttle which is helpful to analyze them.
This illustrates the Fx are tied to the Hz not matching the framerate, when they do match the effect vanishes.
That is how MBR motion blur reduction works (the initial type) by matching Hz to panning Framerate. This technique uses the opposite effect.
These Fx may be achievable with the soft scroll register as well, I have not tried that. But I have duplicated the effect on other Computer Systems (over CRT).
As the illusion creates double colors and phantom pixels I think the thread title is accurate. Both effects can be clearly seen, perhaps someone with real hardware and CRT can share their perspective. |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1831 |
IMHO hallucinations on one or the other display device definately do not qualify for a new graphics mode call - code (and the data it uses) would!
But who am I to decide such delicate discussions. |
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