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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
If it were 1987 again....
I was watching Robin's video https://youtu.be/yVtKKb3wkYc regarding cracking from an original cassette. And it stirred a little interest in me again. To be honest I can't even remember how now but I cracked Wizball from original cassette using a Trilogic Expert (2nd version with botched ESM daughter board) and very likely V2.9 of the monitor software.
I did this again now on real hardware (as I wasn't having much luck with WinVICE 3.7), just for laughs and to try to stir up memories of way back then. Defeating Freeload now was much easier for me than back then.
I used the following packers:
MCC Compressor
then
Card Cruncher V4 (no idea who lent me this cartridge, but probably Tork&Torky)
(usual one was Matcham Time Cruncher V3.1 or a hacked version which ended up becoming Time Cruncher V3.1)
I ended up with 182 blocks incl. intro in Wizball
So it leads me to the next question, back in the day (for me) the best cracks had the smallest disk block size.
What packers did you use then on a real C64 in 1987, and what would you use now on real hardware (a. released upto 1987 and then anytime). What block size can you achieve ?
Exomizer V3.02 gives 144 blocks when no additional parameters are given.
TRIAD Wizball + is 166 with intro
Krejzi Packer $005E-$FFFF + Matcham Time Cruncher V3.1 gives 161 blocks
MCC Compressor + Matcham Time Cruncher V3.1 gives 165 blocks
Beast-Link/64k + Byte Boiler 256k V1.0 gives 148 blocks
Byte-Buster V4.1 + Byte Boiler 256k V1.0 gives 148 blocks |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11149 |
Yes, that's it! >_< |
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AlexC
Registered: Jan 2008
Posts: 293 |
While we are debating memory freezeres definitions it would be worth mentioning that C128 via particular MMU configuration allowed to enter C64 mode, load program into memory, reset system, enter C128 mode and monitor and crack it from there if I remember correctly. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11149 |
Thats only slightly better than regular "reset cracking" though. But sure, people used that :) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Sledgehammer 2 for RLE, Squeezer for crunching, usually an REU version from Antitrack for speed. Level Squeezer for level crunching levels.
Moved to AB Cruncher then Byteboiler. Level AB2 or Level Crusher later. Along with my own packers.
On PC used PUCruncher, then Exomizer.
Bacchus interesting, I'll have to look that up. I've considered doing videos on how to crack stuff, but I figured most of the world would find that extremely boring, haha.
Martin you have the biggest case of Dunning Kruger I've ever witnessed. Look, if you weren't there, have photos of, or used such systems back then which you already admitted you didn't, then hush and quit arguing with straw man nonsense and hypothesis.
SoftICE was a PC thing (and buggy as hell), not for 8 bit computers. Any kind of such hardware like that possibly existed, was in house only. A bunch of kids churning out budget titles for tape houses barely could afford a computer and disk drive let alone such development hardware. That kind of stuff didn't become normal until the 90s unless you were Nintendo or Atari using VAPS machines. Surely not for cracking games. |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 646 |
Fungus you don't seem to know I worked in the games industry where I used all sorts of hardware debuggers, including ICE systems. The older dev software and hardware was still very much available. So yes, I was there. That's how I know about this stuff. I don't know what you think "I admitted" because I didn't. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
You literally said you didn't have a freezer cart.
You weren't working as a software dev back then.
I don't get why you always argue with people about everything, and have to be right, and have to prove you're smart or something. It comes off really bad, and ME saying that is something...
Groepaz is and was a professional developer too, as are MANY MANY people here.
If you want some respect, try showing some.
Also not everything is about you and your experiences.
Back to on topic now, thanks. |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 646 |
Quote: You literally said you didn't have a freezer cart.
You weren't working as a software dev back then.
I don't get why you always argue with people about everything, and have to be right, and have to prove you're smart or something. It comes off really bad, and ME saying that is something...
Groepaz is and was a professional developer too, as are MANY MANY people here.
If you want some respect, try showing some.
Also not everything is about you and your experiences.
Back to on topic now, thanks.
You don't seem to understand how time works. I didn't have a freezer cart when I was 13/14, but a few years later when I started working for Argonaut I did have access to hardware memory debugging tools. So I know how this stuff works by direct experience with it, which means you're incorrect.
My direct professional experience outweighs your lack of experience in the games industry from back then. Enough said really. |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 646 |
Cross development, even back in 1987, wasn't that unusual either.
Andrew Braybrook developed Morpheus using AVMAC65 cross-assembler on an Opus PC, which would send assembled data over to the C128. That hardware was mostly built by Steve Turner experimenting with connecting machines.
If you look at page 163 of Byte July 1987 issue you'll see that AVMAC65 cost around $349, which back then was quite a chunk of change. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 629 |
Your experience doesn't discount anyone else's experience.
I never argued they didn't exist. Quite the contrary. They were not available to users and sceners generally. It's a corporate thing, duh. By all means if you were cracking games and releasing them with that hardware great, I'm sure your competition really appreciated undermining their well being.
Can you engage in a discussion anywhere without making it about you?
You present your opinions as facts.
You seem to be seeking recognition and respect from people who couldn't care less who you are. You're in the wrong place for that, you clearly don't understand what "scene" means. You're a developer, not a scener and as such you don't belong here and your account should be deleted according to the whatever rules this forum chooses to adhere to when ever it suits it.
From a scener standpoint, you are nobody, a nothing. Maybe people on lemon are impressed with your diatribes but no one here is, trust me.
I'm engaging in a pointless debate with someone who has a clear mental illness and should seek help. I'm going to have to bow out of this and just ignore all your pointless self aggrandizing posts. It is clearly a waste of energy.
Have a nice life. Grow up.
I apologize to the staff and users for making this extremely off topic post and I sincerely hope they recognize what I am saying is not to stir shit, but stating that I've seriously grown tired of this type of off topic bickering and fighting by grumpy old men when this isn't the place for it. |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 646 |
Correction, you're trying to make it about me by trying to use personal attacks instead of technical ones. You should stop.
I'm just relating first hand experience of the games industry and development practices back then. The facts are facts, not opinion. |
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