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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
Release id #32484 : Pinball Dreams C64 Preview
what's the latest? |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Not much news at the moment, sorry :P |
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Bago Zonde
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 29 |
Hello! What about this amazing project? Is there any possibility to finish it? I was searching for source code but I found only dead links. Somebody could help me find sources for this crazy stuff?
Thx!
www.commocore.com |
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Leticia
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 21 |
Still searching the source? Then try out this link http://web.archive.org/web/20101114084405/http://www.interstyle.. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1031 |
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=68387
amstrad pinball dreams, better get busy WVL :) |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
I wonder if the CPC version took any inspiration from the C64 source code? Sure it's Z80 vs 6502 but I imagine that some of the ball physics stuff could have been useful. But they might have written everything from scratch as well. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Darn. What timing. Now I'm sure to be harassed during X16... Aargh!
Looks really nice though! I also wonder what they're doing. Keep in mind they have a faster processor (4mhz) and more memory (128kb) though.. |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 421 |
Some would argue that a 4MHz Z80 isn't really faster than a 1MHz 6502... |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Something seems off with the ball physics in the CPC version. In WVL's C64 version (and of course the Amiga original) the ball curves smoothly around the ramp bends, but in the CPC version the ball jerks and loses speed. Also when the ball launches it just falls like a dead fish.
Compare:
https://youtu.be/HVv-oBN6AWA?t=3m29s
https://youtu.be/GvmmCv8_GSU?t=4m10s
They've nailed the graphics engine and the music though, so with some physics tweaks it looks like a really nice port.
PS: Mr SID, they'd be wrong, especially if you do 16-bit math and addressing. IIRC a 4 MHz Z80 should have at least 50% more grunt compared to a 1 MHz 6502. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Must talk to Jackasser... |
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Iapetus/Algarbi/Wood
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71 |
I can't stand the YM sound though. yuck |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Must talk to Jackasser...
Had to cancel my x-trip.. :( my wife is just waaay too pregnant. :D if you wanna finish it plz contact me on FB and we'll setup a modern dev-chain and just do it. All the hard stuff is done.
Pantaloon: please ask your bosses if they have the score-rules for the game stashed at Dice somewhere. |
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Iapetus/Algarbi/Wood
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71 |
Quote: Something seems off with the ball physics in the CPC version. In WVL's C64 version (and of course the Amiga original) the ball curves smoothly around the ramp bends, but in the CPC version the ball jerks and loses speed. Also when the ball launches it just falls like a dead fish.
Compare:
https://youtu.be/HVv-oBN6AWA?t=3m29s
https://youtu.be/GvmmCv8_GSU?t=4m10s
They've nailed the graphics engine and the music though, so with some physics tweaks it looks like a really nice port.
PS: Mr SID, they'd be wrong, especially if you do 16-bit math and addressing. IIRC a 4 MHz Z80 should have at least 50% more grunt compared to a 1 MHz 6502.
The Effective CPU speed on the CPC is 3.3 MHZ (Google for: Z80 timings on Amstrad CPC - Octoate.de Wiki) |
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rexbeng
Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 30 |
Just a comment on the instances where the ball and/or scrolling seems jerky on the youtube video posted on Pouet. There's still some trouble with capturing and uploading CPC emulator videos on youtube.
This videocamera capture of the real thing should be a more accurate example. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-tcsxUtMj5I
Having written the above, I still havent run PD on a real CPC yet. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2477 |
Blimey, missed the chance to harrass WVL on X. ;-)
But great to hear that there is some movement in the project again! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11113 |
i totally forgot to harass werner about this! pah
good luck for your wife jackasser :) |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2477 |
Oh yes, also what gpz said - jackasser, all the best, and keep them fresh sceners coming! :-) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Quoting rexbengJust a comment on the instances where the ball and/or scrolling seems jerky on the youtube video posted on Pouet. There's still some trouble with capturing and uploading CPC emulator videos on youtube.
Interesting, presumably because they screw around with the video timing for some effects, a la C128 VDC effects? Either way, emulator/capture jerkiness is not what I'm talking about, it's the ball changing speed and angle in unexpected ways. |
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rexbeng
Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 30 |
@MagerValp
Well, I am a pixel man and not the right person to go into technical details. If you care there's an 'official' thread following the release of PD where the author is actually posting answers to people's technical questions. :)
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/pinball-illusions-new-game-fr.. |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 421 |
Just opensource it on GitHub someone will pick it up :)
Or better run a KickStarter campaign, and get paid to finish it. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Very interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11113 |
its like speccy ppl. inferior - without the complex. :) |
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Iapetus/Algarbi/Wood
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71 |
Quote: Very interesting reading, that CPC forum thread. Everyone there seems to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex regarding the C64, feeling the need to constantly bash it and its users as they do. I mean, what does it fucking matter which 30+ year old platform you prefer to use? Just use the one you like best and be happy about it.
If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64.
It's an awesome demo though! |
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Iapetus/Algarbi/Wood
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 71 |
Quote: It's an awesome demo though!
Yes, it's very good. The best on that machine imho. |
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Radiant
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote: If you haven't check out the Amstrad CPC demo : Batman Forever by Batman Group where they go on and on about the c64.
Of course I've seen that, and yes, I reacted to it then as well. It's not as if C64 demos are chock full of rants about how much Amstrad or Spectrum sucks. I mean, who would you be trying to convince? |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1055 |
Dominant platform vs underdog, same as always. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Fuck Spectrum! Fuck Atari! Fuck PC! |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Started yesterday on a new tool to make a list of charblocks that need to have a certain color. For things like lights I want to have the colors that change as screencolors, and not as $d800 colors. Reason : it makes codes simpler, since you can write the new color to a fixed memory address, no matter how you scrolled.
I used to have a tool on the c64 for this, but that was horrible work to do :-)
So now I'll have a simple GUI editor in which I can say what for what charblocks I need certain colors to be the screencolors and output a list. A commandline tool (that i can add in my build) updates the bitmaps according to the list.
nice. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11113 |
cheater! |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Started yesterday on a new tool to make a list of charblocks that need to have a certain color. For things like lights I want to have the colors that change as screencolors, and not as $d800 colors. Reason : it makes codes simpler, since you can write the new color to a fixed memory address, no matter how you scrolled.
I used to have a tool on the c64 for this, but that was horrible work to do :-)
So now I'll have a simple GUI editor in which I can say what for what charblocks I need certain colors to be the screencolors and output a list. A commandline tool (that i can add in my build) updates the bitmaps according to the list.
nice.
Now send me the code and let me setup a proper git so that we can collaborate! |
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Magic
Registered: Sep 2012
Posts: 42 |
I actually remember now that I convinced WVL at Breakpoint 2006 to enter the c64 preview in the game compo..
And it even won hehe ;)
But indeed time for a final version.. (if just everybody involved could dedicate time again for it..)
Does it maybe need a kickstarter? :) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Quote: Now send me the code and let me setup a proper git so that we can collaborate!
yessir! |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
is TCH still on board or are all the graphics drawn already?
Needless to say I'm terribly looking forward to this! |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
bump :) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 541 |
According to recent events, the source had to be re-evaluated (as heard by inside sources). It is now a matter of meeting the tough industry standards in which coders has to adhere too in terms of not only functionality but also aesthetics.
The whole SEI / CLI debate has completely derailed the project.
Let us hope that the responsible project owners can add the magic "//", ";" or "REM" on the applicable source code lines so we can see this endeavour materialise into the product we all hope it will be. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
The ball (phun intended) is on WVL as per post #33 |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
I'd guess the fact that the source comes as a big bad monolith of doom is more of a problem than interrupt-preventing cargo cult. And SEI/CLI "jokes" weren't in the least funny so far, no matter how elaborate. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: I'd guess the fact that the source comes as a big bad monolith of doom is more of a problem than interrupt-preventing cargo cult. And SEI/CLI "jokes" weren't in the least funny so far, no matter how elaborate.
It's not more than the average demo part to be honest. :) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
yesyesyes... Did you all know I just had a second daughter? :-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
so daughter is finished, now you can get back to PD ;) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: yesyesyes... Did you all know I just had a second daughter? :-)
Congrats!! My 2nd turns 1 tomorrow. :) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Stay on topic motherfuckers! |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Stay on topic motherfuckers!
Its on topic. Had CSDb have sub-topics the label would be: Pinball Dreams C64 -> Delivery plan -> Excuses |
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Tao
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 115 |
Quoting JackAsserIts on topic. Had CSDb have sub-topics the label would be: Pinball Dreams C64 -> Delivery plan -> Excuses
If he's already had his second daughter it means that there's been a delivery.... |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."
It this case, forget about Pinball Dreams guys.
At least until WVL's kids grow up ;-). |
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 638 |
Quote:One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."
Sums it up perfectly :) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: One wise man (Top Secret/Cult) once told me this (free paraphrase): "With one kid, you still can dream and plan things. With two kids, forget about your dreams."
It this case, forget about Pinball Dreams guys.
At least until WVL's kids grow up ;-).
HCL coded Edge of Disgrace with two kids, and Uncensored with three kids... I'm currently experiencing a C64 peak productivity that I havn't felt for years, while sleep deprivated etc. It has NOTHING to do with kids, and EVERYTHING to do with how fun you think it is. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11113 |
CHUCKY TO THE RESCUE |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2839 |
Jackasser: Did you just promise the finished game for Christmas there? :) (This year's, mind.) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Jackasser: Did you just promise the finished game for Christmas there? :) (This year's, mind.)
Ha! |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Also still eagerly awaiting what WVL meant by his comment on Negative Karma V2. And so is Crossbow, I'm sure. |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 351 |
If you have a good social family/friends network, then it may still be possible to finish your demos ;-)
However thats not always the case.
Until then you need to have the kids finish your demos when they are grown up. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Jackie is kind of right, lately I was the most active when I had the least free time. Basicly I was coding effects half asleep while being in work :) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
No, doesn't count at all. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5017 |
Quote: Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ
no its totally understandable, sometimes one just has enough of a project finished or not :) certainly its none of these reasons PD wasnt finished yet. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Does it count that I have a new job aswell since a couple of weeks? ;-) I'm also half asleep at work sometimes because of the bad nights .zzZZZzzzZZ
If it's of any help, I've just asked Pantaloon to ask Andreas Axelsson for the original sources so that we don't have to reverse engineer the scoring system. This is really what's blocking a release as far as I'm concerned. A big blob of BORING code after all fun and hard code was finished. Cross your fingers that we'll get them. |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
I remember asking Andreas about that, don't think he had it anymore. Can't find that e-mail back though :-( |
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pepto
Account closed
Registered: Nov 2004
Posts: 35 |
Another interesting source for the Pinball Dreams scoring-system might be Vesa Halttunen (vesuri^daJormas), who spent some time working with the source code, as far as I know...
Quote:I completely rewrote the game in C++/OpenGL from the original 68000 assembler source code in 2009. The rewrite includes 100% exact original gameplay |
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Shadow
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 355 |
There are a quite a few ports of Pinball Dreams for different systems (I remember there even being one for the GamePark32 which is a quite obscure hardware...) so maybe it's possible to track down someone who worked on one of the ports if none of the original Digital Illusions dudes has the source? |
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Pantaloon
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 124 |
I'm digging out the sources for Jackasser so they can have a look. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: I'm digging out the sources for Jackasser so they can have a look.
Very kind of you! |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Thanks Panta! |
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Rhino
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2011
Posts: 1 |
Hi everyone!
I am the Batman Group coder that is doing the Pinball Dreams port for Amstrad CPC, which I hope to finish in a few months.
I recently found this thread, which seems quite interesting ...
@WVL
I hope you can finish the project some day, since I see that you are doing a great job and it will be interesting to compare both versions :)
I also wanted to ask you about the game rights. I read somewhere that you got the rights, how did you do it?, I've been trying to contact Rebellion, through their website, Facebook, etc ... but I have not received an answer :/
I would also like to have the approval of the original authors and if anyone can get in touch with them, I will be grateful.
Thanks in advance! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Ok, here's the deal...
If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..
Sounds encouraging enough? ;) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...
If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..
Sounds encouraging enough? ;)
Wooo! Haaaa! \o/ |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 555 |
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...
If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..
Sounds encouraging enough? ;)
Send me a PM with your email ... I can make an intro to the Kingsleys if you like? (they own Rebellion) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Quote: Ok, here's the deal...
If you take care of finishing the port, I'll take care of audio part and I'm going to pull it off as 1:1 and ass kickin' as I can. Small 1-channel appetizer here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l0klujmu6f71amn/PinballDreams_Beatbox..
Sounds encouraging enough? ;)
Now this is getting interesting :-) |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Now this is getting interesting :-)
I’ve talked to Robert and he introduced me. PM your mail and I’ll CC you in |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034 |
Jamma, mymaaan!!!! |
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Tom-Cat
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 20 |
Anything new on this front since the CPC version was released a few days ago:
http://www.indieretronews.com/2019/10/pinball-dreams-cpc-hot-ne..
It is a GREAT conversion, however I find the two c64 preview tables much more fluid and have more of that Amiga PD feeling than the CPC version which seems slower and clunkier, even though you see more of the playfield. It is still a great achievement... kudos to Batman group! |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Time to spank the CPC (again). |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2477 |
What hedning said.
But I reckon EotB has to be finished first. :) |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
Okay, bump again.
I'd love to see this game appear on the mighty 64 one day.
So, any further news on this? :-) |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1821 |
Rumours yell that WVL gave the sources to Jackasser so he can spend some time on it until EOTB is ready (and Veto polished some balls). |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
@WVL Source please… |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Coming up! Let's chat tonight 😘
send you a link ;-) |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 716 |
WTF @Jackasser, we're doing demo now!! ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11113 |
Pinball Demo! |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: WTF @Jackasser, we're doing demo now!! ;)
No worries. Just getting the ”ball” rolling. |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 589 |
Oh yeah! |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1627 |
Warming up already. Demos can wait! ;D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 555 |
Quote: WTF @Jackasser, we're doing demo now!! ;)
Meh, demo can wait. We need Pinball! |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289 |
Quoting JackAsser@WVL Source please…
Holy shit! xD |
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St0rmfr0nt
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 33 |
The final game on X2023 to be expected? Fingers crossed! |
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Wile Coyote
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 637 |
Will be good to see this project completed.
Too bad T.M.R. never got the chance. I like to think his graphics will remain in tact. |
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JackAsser
Registered: Jun 2002
Posts: 1989 |
Quote: Will be good to see this project completed.
Too bad T.M.R. never got the chance. I like to think his graphics will remain in tact.
❤️ |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 886 |
Quote: Will be good to see this project completed.
Too bad T.M.R. never got the chance. I like to think his graphics will remain in tact.
We will probably have to make some small changes to get all the lights and other things to work properly. I'm going to try though. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
New times bring new possibilities. Guess EF war no option in 2006. Good luck! |
