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Forums > CSDb Discussions > What is Onefile Demo, what is Graphics...
2017-06-27 18:38
ptoing

Registered: Sep 2005
Posts: 232
What is Onefile Demo, what is Graphics...

I recently started to go through a lot of art on here to put on my SD card for enjoyment on real hardware purposes.

Then I came across Industrial Dawn which is just a picture with music. I don't see anything else going on. (That said, it is really nice, both music and pic).

It is entered as One-File Demo, while a lot of pictures with music (could link a whole bunch by Mermaid for example, but also loads others), which are just entered as Graphics.

I guess there is no super easy way to draw a line here. Any thoughts?

IMO, demo would include at least some kind of effect, or a scroller maybe. But then people had a discussion about this when I released my Headache pic in the gfx compo at X'10.
 
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2017-07-14 01:17
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8154
Quote:
Isn't the chosen category of a release more or less an important part of the release itself? The artist (I choose this phrase on purpose!) wants his product to be seen as a certain thing, so by choosing the category the artist also puts a focus.

the artist should then explain whatever he thinks needs explaining on his website, in the release, in a readme... or whatever.

however, entries in csdb are not about what some artist thinks or demands it to be.
2017-07-14 23:06
Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 268
Quoting Copyfault

Defining a gfx with dependence on available editors would outrule any future gfx mode - which I think is a valuable ingredient of the c64's magic.


Thought about that too, perhaps the first time a 'new' gfx mode is released, we call it a demo. And future releases, when an editor is available, can be called graphics.
2017-07-15 14:40
Deev

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 150
Is the problem here that we’re trying to rigidly fit everything into one category, when sometimes a release could actually fit a number of categories? Databases cataloging music, film, art etc. wouldn’t usually restrict an entry to just one genre/theme, because many releases break those boundaries.

If someone invents a new graphics mode and it’s first released as a standalone picture, that release should be categorised as a demo, but if we would categorise every release that follows as a C64 graphic, then to me it makes sense that the first release should also be a C64 graphic.

If you strip things down purely to the functionality of a database (as always seems to happen when people suggest new features), then you should certainly be able to query graphics in a certain mode and receive all releases in that mode, including the first. Similarly, you should probably be able to query something like "demos which premiere a new graphics mode".
2017-07-15 17:55
Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 4065
yep, pointless to argue, releases will never only fit certain boxes.

maybe tags could help, then a release could be both gfx and demo :)
2017-07-15 23:53
Shine

Registered: Jul 2012
Posts: 196
Quoting Oswald
yep, pointless to argue, releases will never only fit certain boxes.

maybe tags could help, then a release could be both gfx and demo :)

Yep i agree. Tags would be a very fine feature generally!
2017-07-16 14:31
Copyfault

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 208
Quoting Groepaz
Quote:
Isn't the chosen category of a release more or less an important part of the release itself? The artist (I choose this phrase on purpose!) wants his product to be seen as a certain thing, so by choosing the category the artist also puts a focus.

the artist should then explain whatever he thinks needs explaining on his website, in the release, in a readme... or whatever.

Yes, that would be fine (though when having "real art" in mind, a f**king lot of artists never shared their thoughts on their productions, leaving the consumer alone).

Quoting Groepaz

however, entries in csdb are not about what some artist thinks or demands it to be.

But the release itself is! And as a db for gathering information on everything C64-scene related the CSDb-entry should just reflects that, no?
2017-07-16 14:42
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8154
the point is that all entries should be categorized using the exact same rules. once it is allowed for everyone to apply their own ideas, chaos is the result. (and thats also why users cant add random tags)
2017-07-16 14:58
hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 1288
Quote: the point is that all entries should be categorized using the exact same rules. once it is allowed for everyone to apply their own ideas, chaos is the result. (and thats also why users cant add random tags)

+1
2017-07-16 15:08
Copyfault

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 208
Quoting Han
On other systems (i.e. PC) the differentiation is quite simple and could be applied to the C64 as well. At least as a rule for entries at demo parties: Only pure data-files are allowed for the graphics and music-compo. That means the picture or soundfile must be delivered in a well documented format and the organizers define which formats are allowed. On PC that usually means JPG and MP3/MOD.
[...]

I think this won't work as graphics on C64 are not that standardized* like e.g. on PC.

But the idea to look at how it is handled on other platforms got me thinking. Ususally there are certain boundaries given for resolution and the amount of colours (for example, a PC gfx release must be 1920x1080pix max @ 32bit colour depth on most parties). What about carrying this over to C64, so everything that is 404x312pix@16Colours** is a valid gfx entry for a compo. Choosing the C64's colour palette, this would only allow C64 gfx releases**; choosing a different palette would result in what is nowadays called Oldschool GFX iiuc.


*) this ofcourse reveals I'm still a fan of explicitly allowing fancy modes for gfx-releases

**) I know this ignores the different C64-specific restrictions in/outside the main 320x200 screen window but I just wanted to give a first proposal.
2017-07-16 15:19
Groepaz

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 8154
somehow i dont get what the problem is with this at all. "prg file that can be run and shows a still picture" is pretty clear to me.
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