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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
VSP = HSP and HSP (Linecrunching) = VSP
I don't know what scene genius decided that VERTICAL SCREEN POSITIONING should describe the effect of moving the screen HORIZONTALLY (and vice versa with HSP/Linecrunching) but it's been bugging me like forever... Isn't it about time we used the correct terminology?
Discuss! 8)
P.S: In Crest, we barely ever called it VSP and HSP, Crossbow just calls the effects "Wanker" (yes, seriously, from german "wanken", meaning to sway left & right - our english wasn't all that great back then!) and "Linecruncher"! ;-) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3141 |
https://csdb.dk/release/?id=6176&show=trivia#trivia
Variable, not Vertical =) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
while we're at it linecruncher doesnt crunches lines but whole char rows, so from now on we should call it ROWCRUNCH, and FLD -> FRD |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: https://csdb.dk/release/?id=6176&show=trivia#trivia
Variable, not Vertical =)
But nobody calls it "Variable". Not even Wikiedia does (which has it the right way around btw! ;-)
Also, "HSP" would still not make sense..
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_VIC_II |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
right nobody calls it variable, we call it VSP, stupid name, I have to remind myself its variable and not vertical. but it will stay with us till the grave :) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3141 |
Seems like you are creating the problem yourselves. Whoever wrote the V stands for Vertical is wrong, just ignore the error and while at it, fix the wikipedia if it bothers you so much. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting iAN CooGSeems like you are creating the problem yourselves. Whoever wrote the V stands for Vertical is wrong, just ignore the error and while at it, fix the wikipedia if it bothers you so much. Indeed, Wikipedia is worth shit for C-64 stuff. And so is Reddit. And yes, scene terminology was always shit, too. =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
LOL @ "Not even Wikiedia does"
"Wanker" is a term invented by "64er", btw - and it means something different - generally moving a logo (or GFX) left and right - not necessarily using DMA-delay (which is the proper term) :)
(also FLI is "Flexible Line Interpretation", not "Interpreter") |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 578 |
Wait… I thought FLI was Flexible Line Interpolation? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
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ChristopherJam
Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1382 |
I mean, I called VSP "Johnscroll" for years, because my first exposure came from being in the same room when John West (of 64doc) independently stumbled across the effect.
(this was in early 1989, but neither of us were aware of prior art at the time - we were just "why the fuck has this raster routine we're running in the background confused BASIC into putting the starts of lines halfway across the screen???") |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: I mean, I called VSP "Johnscroll" for years, because my first exposure came from being in the same room when John West (of 64doc) independently stumbled across the effect.
(this was in early 1989, but neither of us were aware of prior art at the time - we were just "why the fuck has this raster routine we're running in the background confused BASIC into putting the starts of lines halfway across the screen???")
Yeah, I also stumbled across it by chance when I was hacking around in Cosmos' AFLI displayer and suddenly the whole screen was shifted! ;-) |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: Quoting iAN CooGSeems like you are creating the problem yourselves. Whoever wrote the V stands for Vertical is wrong, just ignore the error and while at it, fix the wikipedia if it bothers you so much. Indeed, Wikipedia is worth shit for C-64 stuff. And so is Reddit. And yes, scene terminology was always shit, too. =)
No need to fix it - cause it's correct, it quotes VSP as vertical screen positioning and HSP as horizontal! ;-) |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Quote: LOL @ "Not even Wikiedia does"
"Wanker" is a term invented by "64er", btw - and it means something different - generally moving a logo (or GFX) left and right - not necessarily using DMA-delay (which is the proper term) :)
(also FLI is "Flexible Line Interpretation", not "Interpreter")
Wow, I did not know that... Sure that 64'er didn't just get it from Crest demos? 8)
P.S: Wasn't a swinging logo also called "TicToc" at some point? |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting DeeKayWasn't a swinging logo also called "TicToc" at some point? You're probably referring to "tech-tech", which originated with https://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=4445 and refers to being able to move lines horizontally independently from each other. A step up from "wanker". =) |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Err - no, I wasn't. And thanks for the eggsplanation what TechTech is, I totally didn't know! >:-) |
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Mr. SID
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 424 |
Don't we all remember what a rabbit hole trying to fix Wikipedia can be...? :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
It was 64'er - Hannes Sommer would be my guess (who often came up with this kind of articles).
I also remember "Tic Toc" being "Tech Tech"... no idea where i have seen that used though.
Quote:cause it's correct, it quotes VSP as vertical screen positioning and HSP as horizontal!
It's about as "correct" as FLI being "Funky Loud Intermediates" :)
Is that "Rasterzeileninterrupt" dude still active? Perhaps he can fix it! |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Quote: But nobody calls it "Variable". Not even Wikiedia does (which has it the right way around btw! ;-)
Also, "HSP" would still not make sense..
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_VIC_II
Didn't it originate from this demo? VSP&IK+
Oh, [edit] Ian already mentioned it, the source :) |
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TMA
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 6 |
For a long time i thought that VSP stands for 'Variable Screen Position'.
But it make also sense that VSP means 'Vertical Screen Position' and HSP 'Horizontal Screen Position' aka Linecrunshing.
Together, VSP + HSP = AGSP (Any Given Screen Position).
But anyway, great stuff! |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Apparently Ivo Herzeg (aka Mr.Cursor) used "VSP" and "HSP" in the Magic Disk Articles: https://dmhas.de/site/downloads/IRQ-Kurs_Magic_Disk.pdf - that explains the confusion. Kinda weird to not at least clear it up, years after the term was established. |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 717 |
The guys who could code when i was a lamer called it "D011-pusher".. probably since you used $d011 to "push" the screen sideways.. :P. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting HCLThe guys who could code when i was a lamer called it "D011-pusher".. probably since you used $d011 to "push" the screen sideways.. :P. Without the sideways bit i'd have assumed "D011 pusher" to mean FLD. =) |
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HCL
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 717 |
Yeah.. it could pretty much go for anything d011-related.. :D |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
if I was to name I would have named FLD screen tear up or STU :D it was exciting to see it is possible to tear distance between rows, from my perspective it does this :) |
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Boogaloo
Registered: Aug 2019
Posts: 21 |
When we (Exilon and I) made Bonanza, we called it simply "$d011-scroll". Actually, we still call it that. :-) |
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Martin Piper
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 647 |
Quote: For a long time i thought that VSP stands for 'Variable Screen Position'.
But it make also sense that VSP means 'Vertical Screen Position' and HSP 'Horizontal Screen Position' aka Linecrunshing.
Together, VSP + HSP = AGSP (Any Given Screen Position).
But anyway, great stuff!
I also used to use AGSP to refer to HSP+VSP. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 631 |
VSP was always Variable Screen Positioning to me, Linecrunching, and AGSP (any given screen position). FLD was flexible line distance, fli flexible line interpolation, FPP Flexible pixel positioning, also seen it called FPD, or flexible pixel display. Sprite crunching too.
I like wanker though, since all demos are wanking off. I'm with Crossbow on that one. |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Whoever comes up with a routine gets to name it, no matter how stupid the name is. With some exceptions - Sodan called it "Multi Scrapper Screen Scroller," but the scene decided that it was better to just call it the TechTech effect.
Talking about "Wanker," that's what I knew VSP as in the old days as well. When I wrote an article for 64'er in 1992 about AGSP I also used the term Wanker, which they happily printed. Afterwards I wrote to them again with some other suggestions for articles, but never heard back for some reason. Later I realized what wanker meant and figured that the 64'er staff might also have realized it, and therefore deemed me untrustworthy for using naughty words. :-) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 631 |
Hah, that's pretty funny. Probably true too why they didn't take anymore articles from you. |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 351 |
Names are to confuse people. Get rid of names. ;) |
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WVL
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 887 |
Quote: Whoever comes up with a routine gets to name it, no matter how stupid the name is. With some exceptions - Sodan called it "Multi Scrapper Screen Scroller," but the scene decided that it was better to just call it the TechTech effect.
Talking about "Wanker," that's what I knew VSP as in the old days as well. When I wrote an article for 64'er in 1992 about AGSP I also used the term Wanker, which they happily printed. Afterwards I wrote to them again with some other suggestions for articles, but never heard back for some reason. Later I realized what wanker meant and figured that the 64'er staff might also have realized it, and therefore deemed me untrustworthy for using naughty words. :-)
I still remember that article! |
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zscs
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 45 |
Quote: I still remember that article!
Wich 64'er Magazine was that? I would read some of those technical articles. :-)
I found only this from 1992 at archive.org: https://archive.org/details/64er_produktfuhrer_1992-01 |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
September 1992, Page 58, "Profi Corner"
https://archive.org/details/64er_1992_09/page/n57/mode/2up
The headline "Der geniale Trick" is something they came up with btw. :) I wrote it in English since my German skills were, and still are, very sucky, and then this Peter Klein dude translated it. So I blame any errors in the article on the translation. The lame code I gotta take responsibility for though, but hey, I was just 17 at the time. |
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zscs
Registered: Sep 2010
Posts: 45 |
Quote: September 1992, Page 58, "Profi Corner"
https://archive.org/details/64er_1992_09/page/n57/mode/2up
The headline "Der geniale Trick" is something they came up with btw. :) I wrote it in English since my German skills were, and still are, very sucky, and then this Peter Klein dude translated it. So I blame any errors in the article on the translation. The lame code I gotta take responsibility for though, but hey, I was just 17 at the time.
Really cool, thanks! <3 <3 <3 |
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Digger
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 422 |
Quote: September 1992, Page 58, "Profi Corner"
https://archive.org/details/64er_1992_09/page/n57/mode/2up
The headline "Der geniale Trick" is something they came up with btw. :) I wrote it in English since my German skills were, and still are, very sucky, and then this Peter Klein dude translated it. So I blame any errors in the article on the translation. The lame code I gotta take responsibility for though, but hey, I was just 17 at the time.
I <3 "wanktiming" :) Jolly 17 yo's xD |
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Cruzer
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1048 |
Quoting WVLI still remember that article! Amazing :D
Quoting DiggerI <3 "wanktiming" :) Jolly 17 yo's xD I'm cringing so hard. Sorry, 64'er, for disgracing your fine publication! |
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Monte Carlos
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 351 |
I remember that article, too. But in that time I did not understand the code nor have I been in the scene at that time (but shortly after). I would have liked to type the code in and assemble the whole part like in the picture. |
