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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Group id #223 : Protovision
There are some entries from Protovision that should be deleted from the database.
Those entries are commercial releases (without a downloadlink) and not scenereleases.
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http://forum.siliconlimited.com
Commodore 64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.blogspot.com/ |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Quote: I didn't ask if you play new games. And the fact that you do, doesn't make your previous opinion less retarded.
CreamPie
So, exactly what did you ask again, mr mooooooooooooderator?
I belive everyone here should be able to express their
opinions, may they be uncomfortable, critical or generally slugish. And that's without them beeing called retarded by forum moderators.
The (C64) scene to me is holy, and so is this data base while software publishers for the C64/whatever have come and gone, damn, some did make millions of dollars/Pounds/Whatever and still they couldn't survive because of lack of organisation, management, or simply because they tend to release shit. Long gone are Ocean, Software Projects, Us Gold and many more. But one thing will always survive, the scene. Driven by people with passion, engagement and true data spirit. There's a reason why groups like FLT and F4CG are still around...
Jidderish BoNaNZa. True, but i tend to go where my heart leads me, Mr CreaMD, and if you feel my opinions are retarded, hell, they might be. |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Okay, so on the one hand we've previously allowed entries to be added for developers like X-Ample or BWB who were scene groups that moved into game dev, but i think the biggest difference between them and the PTV entries is that the latter are pretty much just adverts for commercial products rather than "furthering" the database. PTV itself does belong in the database due to it's heritage, the Vision parties, scene-related releases and members, but i do feel that the commercially released (and unavailable, at least here) game entries aren't directly part of the scene, rather they're sold to the larger C64 community (of which the scene is a subset) and probably shouldn't be in the Db for that reason. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
1) define the c64 scene
My definition is very simple. C64 scene is a large group of creative individuals gathered around C64.
2) is any freeware a scene release?
No.
3) is Protovision part of the scene?
Some Protovision members are part of the scene. Some of their releases are scene releases.
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This way, someone who visits lemon to talk about games isn't a C64 scener. Someone who prints a magazine related to C64 isn't automatically a C64 scener. But can be, if he does have contacts with the scene and the magazine covers C64 scene. Not all parties/meetings are scene meetings. Some are power user meetings, some are retro parties. Some developers have C64 roots but lost connection to the C64 scene. Other developers were never part of the scene but somehow joined it by doing more an more C64 scene releases of various kind. Protovision is run by people who were or became part of the scene and some of their productions were released for the scene. That is what made Protovision is part of the scene. They didn't decide upon that, it happened when some of their members releases something as scene release.
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I disagree with this:
>Protovision is not part of the scene, as they produce for financial gain and do not take part in scene activities other than for their own commercial good.
You only look at the financial aspect of their activities. But if that was only thing that motivates them, they would never produce anything. You cann't get rich on producing of C64 games nowadays. I don't know how much they ever earned on selling of their software but I doubt it is anything that I personally would find attractive. What drives some of their developers to produce things is enthusiasm and pride. They want to do something great for C64 and this THING is something that shared accross the whole scene base. This is what makes them sceners in my eyes. Of course, their commercial game releases aren't scene releases unless they decide so and release them as such. Currently the commercialy sold games shouldn't be in the CSDB. We can agree on that.
>...only proves that Protovision should NOT be in CSDb...
Protovision should be in CSDB. As far as opinions of their individual members are concerned, that's really their problem that they can't communicate with the scene properly, but the fact that some of their members have problems with some sceners doesn't make the releases non-scene. I remember one case when a scener wanted to remove all releases (fixes) of his group.
We (moderators group) are strongly against the abuse of this database and we won't allow removal of scene accounts or scene releases just because someone can't cope with how scene works. On the other hand, if release is not fitting the internal rules, it should be removed. Probably for the same reason there aren't music collection releases from Steve Rowlands although someone might miss them and probably there isn't better place where they could be currently archived. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Quote: Okay, so on the one hand we've previously allowed entries to be added for developers like X-Ample or BWB who were scene groups that moved into game dev, but i think the biggest difference between them and the PTV entries is that the latter are pretty much just adverts for commercial products rather than "furthering" the database. PTV itself does belong in the database due to it's heritage, the Vision parties, scene-related releases and members, but i do feel that the commercially released (and unavailable, at least here) game entries aren't directly part of the scene, rather they're sold to the larger C64 community (of which the scene is a subset) and probably shouldn't be in the Db for that reason.
And yes. What TMR said! |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
Quote:There's a reason why groups like FLT and F4CG are still around
Okay...I don't have anything against Sixx or F4CG and I'm not exactly Protovision's biggest fan, but according to CSDb:
Non commercial releases by F4CG in the last 7 years: 0
Non commercial releases by Protovision in the last 7 years: 27 |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
@ CreaMD
Quote:You only look at the financial aspect of their activities. But if that was only thing that motivates them, they would never produce anything. Money isn't the only thing that motivates them to create anything, but it IS the motivation to sell products through the company called Protovision. Therefor, commercially available products should not be in CSDb.
Quote:Of course, their commercial game releases aren't scene releases unless they decide so and release them as such. Currently the commercialy sold games shouldn't be in the CSDB. We can agree on that. We just did. ;-)
Quote:They want to do something great for C64 and this THING is something that shared accross the whole scene base. This is what makes them sceners in my eyes. I wasn't denying that the separate members are sceners. I was denying that Protovision is a scene related group.
However, as Vanja pointed out, they DID produce scene products. And so I corrected myself by saying that Protovision is indeed scene related, hence they can be in CSDb.
Our posts must have crossed eachother :-)
@ Vanja
Quote:Non commercial releases by F4CG in the last 7 years: 0
Non commercial releases by Protovision in the last 7 years: 27 Hehehe, touché... pity 'time' isn't a criterion either :)
@ TMR
What you said. But that was easy, we already did all the thinking for you! ;-) |
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Mermaid
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 338 |
@ Mace:
Quote:Hehehe, touché... pity 'time' isn't a criterion either :)
It was just in response to Sixx writing "F4CG are still around" after claiming Protovision doesn't belong here.
Time is indeed irrelevant, but I personally wouldn't shout too loud about Protovision not belonging here if my last recorded release dated back to sometime in the previous century. :)
Curse those pesky statistics, eh? |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Doesn't matter Mace, i said it better so ppphhhpppt! =-) |
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Sledge
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 102 |
Quote: @ Mace:
Quote:Hehehe, touché... pity 'time' isn't a criterion either :)
It was just in response to Sixx writing "F4CG are still around" after claiming Protovision doesn't belong here.
Time is indeed irrelevant, but I personally wouldn't shout too loud about Protovision not belonging here if my last recorded release dated back to sometime in the previous century. :)
Curse those pesky statistics, eh?
What can I say, Vanja. Time hasn't really changed when it comes to Sixx ;) Sixx has always been what he is. Ta det med en nypa salt som man säger ;D |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11163 |
pretty funny how those who demand "respect" from the scene (in the sense of the scene not making their productions available for public download) turn around just to call the scene a bunch of "retarded introlinking friends" :=)
hint: that wont earn you respect at all. bye. |
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