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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Transparent votes?
There's been a lot of "discussion" in the one-liner box about whether voting should be transparent, i.e. you can see who voted (and their vote's value).
I feel that things should stay as they are, just the number of votes and "weighted" vote shown for each entry. That would save all the arguments "why did you vote low for me?" or "he/she is a lamer, they voted low for me/my release"
What do others think? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
I don't think anyone would be so foolish to whine about downvotes by real sceners while many of us don't feel like accepting the fact that someone can hide behind anonymity and freely manipulate the charts. That *is* harmful! |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
tdj: I can see this post becoming a big "fuck you" thread as opposed to what should be done with the voting system, chances are this sort of topic will be around for another decade. There is nothing of importance to be gained from this thread, just as there was no importance about the chart cheating that went on 10-15 years ago. It's a lost cause and people are always going to fuck the voting standards. You don't think there won't be another secret man in the shadows? Thinking he was the best ever and will create numerous accounts to fuck up voting. If you are doing stuff on c64 for fame today you're a dead man and probably should go tryout for those superstar idol tv shows.
Bayliss gave me a 1 as musician, it's not like i'm bothered by it, he maybe has heard one tune from me and none that i spread around the local board scene in the late 80's. I'm a big fan of your work and we are all glad you put your time in so long ago but don't expect everyone to bend over for you because you did some cool shit a long time ago. As they say in Hollywood, what have you done for me lately?
Oswald: of course, idle hands are tools of the devil.
Vip: the fact you thought of that really scares me bro :)
Slator: Hello, nice that you pulled yourself away from the bbq :) now pass me some hairy schnitzel :)
Stryyker: Brad Hogg is God! :) also, hello :) we are the ruler and fear be in the heart of all warrior of the underwear
quite simply.. fuck it. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11352 |
bah, how pathetic. votes should be anonym - downvoters or not - it'll still be much more "real" charts than showed anywhere else before (mags etc).
and no, i dont have a problem with beeing recognized as the responsible person for downvoting - look at my damned vote history if you care :=P |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
Quote: bah, how pathetic. votes should be anonym - downvoters or not - it'll still be much more "real" charts than showed anywhere else before (mags etc).
and no, i dont have a problem with beeing recognized as the responsible person for downvoting - look at my damned vote history if you care :=P
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/userpage/details.php
Make my CSDb votes: Public
8-O |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Okay, let me state it once more, because appearantly it's still not clear: I don't care about being in the charts. I even don't care for my group or its releases being in the charts. All I say is that if you decide to have charts, at least make sure they're as accurate as possible, and transparancy will help doing that.
Also, I view the charts in a way different light than those of 15 years ago. Let's say you're an ex-scener, stumbling upon this wonderful site, and you'd like to know what demos that were released after you left really rock. Wouldn't it be nice if you could depend on the charts here? Ofcourse I know: not everybody has the same taste, but the more people place honest votes (and once again: transparancy will improve those chances, improve I say, not guarantee, dammit!) the better the chance that it will serve that function.
As for my final point, please please please read this through before you go shouting "tdj doesn't like anybody disagreeing with him":
1. if people are for transparancy, cool
2. if people are against transparancy, cool
3. if people don't give a fuck, cool
But I do not like people from group (3) telling me I should stop caring and spend my time otherwise. What have I done for you lately Fade? Nothing, but then again: I don't owe you, or anybody else in this scene, anything. I do not thrive on the stuff I did in the past, I do not want your respect, I simply want to have a discussion here. If people don't like that discussion they should fuck off. It's that simple. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
>I don't care about being in the charts. I even don't care for my group or its releases being in the charts. All I say is that if you decide to have charts, at least make sure they're as accurate as possible, and transparancy will help doing that.
--
I agree with that but there are always going to be people causing grief to any votesystem, you only need to look at rock n role's wares release system to feel an overwhelming bias towards quality. If the noname guys were to establish a bunch of guys to tally and review releases it would be far healthier then the masses doing so, maybe having a secondary scener votesystem for everyone else to crap on would be better.
Just remember you can't have a discussion without other opinions and i just feel this is going to ramble on until the scene is told how the voting is going to work. |
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Cmr
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 23 |
What's wrong with Slator's idea? It satisfies both parties : the pro-transparent people and the anti-transparant people. Or is it really the meaning to make the votesystem only for one sort of people (if I see some critics here, it looks like that some guys prefer this)?
Slator's idea : the choice of looking at the transparent charts only or at the full charts (including the anonym votes). I think this is a neutral choice for everybody and easy to do by Perff (I think). |
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Cmr
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2003
Posts: 23 |
These are Merman's words :
I feel that things should stay as they are, just the number of votes and "weighted" vote shown for each entry. That would save all the arguments "why did you vote low for me?" or "he/she is a lamer, they voted low for me/my release"
In some way he is right. But TDJ's facts are in some way also right.
In Slator's idea you have the secure feeling for people like Merman (for those who like to display the charts counted on all votes) and the open feeling for people like TDJ (for those who like to display the charts counted on the transparent votes only).
If you make the whole vote-system transparent, the anonym voters will stay away (otherwise they had already made their vote transparent now) and you still have the now-transparent votes as only chart. Slator gives a chance for both. If somebody only wants the transparent votes in the vote-system, then he discriminates people who like another vote-system. So why not taking both, it is possible!
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1677 |
I have been following this thread and the survey, and it seems to me that the best solution will be something like this:
In CSDb we calculate two ratings. One based only on the votes given by users who have their votes public, and one based on all votes (like now).
Any user can then chose on the userpage which of these ratings they want displayed when THEY browse the site.
The default will be the rating based on all votes.
This will result in some coding for my part, so it will not be implementet in one day. (Besides I'm rather busy in these days..)
Any comments/objections? |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: I have been following this thread and the survey, and it seems to me that the best solution will be something like this:
In CSDb we calculate two ratings. One based only on the votes given by users who have their votes public, and one based on all votes (like now).
Any user can then chose on the userpage which of these ratings they want displayed when THEY browse the site.
The default will be the rating based on all votes.
This will result in some coding for my part, so it will not be implementet in one day. (Besides I'm rather busy in these days..)
Any comments/objections?
I honestly don't think it's bad but it's not good either. It's a bit 'bleegh' if you know what I mean. Taking the easy way out, but that's cool .. Now you have 2 different kinds of charts that don't mean shit instead of just 1, right? :)
And I still want an option to make my products non-votable. |
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