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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Release id #144000 : Wowzer
Dear moderators,
I've seen my mp3 link for this release has been removed. We had this discussion earlier and it was decided that links to external mp3s are okay.
Was there a policy change?
Thanks
Markus / LMan |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Not me this time. Restore the link, and I'll start an internal discussion to see where we land. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
I can't find that discussion, and I don't recall the outcome. It seems all links to your mp3-files are gone (which makes me happy - csdb is a C64 database, and we don't need mp3-files - I guess the only real reason you want mp3-files linked here is that more people outside the scene will be able to listen?).
Can you give me a link to that discussion? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
people here are supposed to know how to play a sid or to run a prg/d64. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Well obviously there are people who are annoyed or even offended (merry Christmas Fungus) by a simple external link to an mp3, so until this is totally and officially sorted, I'll do nothing.
However I wish to add my 2 cents to your internal discussion:
1. It is a huge convenience for CSDb users, and it's used a lot
2. It requires no space on your harddrives
3. Regarding all the different methods of playing a SID tune, it is a huge feat to have a recording, directly from the artist, that replays the tune as it is supposed to sound. For reminders, there are CDs for sale like "Project: Galway" for exactly that purpose. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11356 |
"The link you add must point directly to the binary. (perhaps it should say c64 binary instead)"
i even find .sid files questionable for that matter (and unnecessary most of the times).
LMan: by playing it on C64 it will sound as it should sound. no mp3 required :) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
I'm not telling that you should not provide a mp3 recording, that's a big plus. just it's not for the DOWNLOAD LINKS, which as said should point only to the c64 executables (for c64 rels, of course "other platform tools" are other platform executables like windows exes preferably zipped)
As told in the comment, you already provide a website link for them and that's enough. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
It's your website and you guys make the rules.
However do you realise that you openly object against making stuff more accessible / convenient for your users?
You could say heck it's our database we make the rules, but then again you're asking for donations from your users. Your users turned your database into the de-facto one stop place for c64 releases. You could at least consider making some concessions to that.
I respect your rules, and my latest info was links to mp3s were okay, so I kept adding them. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
Ok. If the moderators say that external links to mp3 are acceptable I won't delete them anymore. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11356 |
Quote:However do you realise that you openly object against making stuff more accessible / convenient for your users?
users of csdb (-> c64 sceners) have a c64 to play your tunes right there. no mp3 required :) |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Hehe Groepaz I get your drift, you're a purist.
However, in this case we're talking about music, and here I'm a bit of a purist, I love to hear a track how the artist wanted it to sound.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to fight for that mp3 link, just giving you a different perspective. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11356 |
i'm not much of a purist there actually (and most often i dont bother listening to sids on the real thing - except for some rare exceptions like Hi Fi Sky =)) - however, i dont like the general drift towards mp3s and youtube when it comes to c64 productions.
and regarding "i want them to hear it how the artist wanted it to sound" - while i understand the point, i find it a weak argument. because part of the art in this case is making the tune so it sounds good on everyones C64 :) |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Okay I'll just wait for whatever you guys decide.
:) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
csdb should finally accept it is a release site, and support the scene instead of going against it. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Quote: csdb should finally accept it is a release site, and support the scene instead of going against it.
And you should release more stuff. :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11356 |
Quote:csdb should finally accept it is a release site, and support the scene instead of going against it.
didnt you get the memo? release sites are on telnet - ask goethe! |
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Board Rider
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 15 |
Release site like BBS's... like the ones on...
http://cbbsoutpost.servebbs.com
surfshopbbs.zapto.org port 2300
Board Rider/CSD! |
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Mr.Ammo
Account closed
Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 228 |
Quoting Groepazdidnt you get the memo? release sites are on telnet - ask goethe!
Telnet you say? Those warezzzz site operators and users aren't really careful anymore these days! ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: And you should release more stuff. :)
indeed... I guess I'm getting old for this shit :) |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
<Post edited by moderator on 27/12-2015 10:27>
Isn't the website link usually used for an mp3 or a youtube capture? Which is awesome btw, especially when checking releases on my phone. Especially especially if it's a capture from real hardware, like the composer's own machine. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Quote: Isn't the website link usually used for an mp3 or a youtube capture? Which is awesome btw, especially when checking releases on my phone. Especially especially if it's a capture from real hardware, like the composer's own machine.
Oops. Wrong button...
Website link is perfect for that... Download link not. |
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 225 |
I think it would be nice with a mp3-link! |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Drax: There is one, right under the screenshot. Point is, the download links are for c64 files only, as this site is for and about the c64. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3049 |
In my opinion. External links to video captures or or mp3 recordings from real machine are OK, because they extend "reach". Even when audience is C64 scener, he still can have problem to run things on real machines due to various reasons. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
now that LMan admitted he recorded the mp3s from sidplay/w don't you all feel a bit retarded? :D |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
I'm not offended (also merry xmas), but this site is for c64 scene history, not archiving files in formats designed for PC's and car stereos. Most of the people who use the site know how to use a .sid file, d64 or prg. If they don't then hey have no business here anyways.
I got aggro because mods kept removing your file (because it's against the site rules) and you kept reuploading it because fuck the rules right?
Put it on your soundcloud, dropbox, googledrive, whatever, and make a link to the file if you feel the need to do that, please.
Also someone deleted my comment again right after we had a discussion about this (admins pls). |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3049 |
Ian, good point ;-). Of course recordings from SIDplay are retarded.
Fungus you should learn good manners. And not only around CSDB, but also in general. It's kinda stupid to learn that you bitch about me and insult me on IRC, while as I clearly stated, I never removed any of your posts. Merry Christmas to you too. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Hey by writing "I admitted" to recording from SIDPlay, you make it sound like I was hiding that fact. I was always open about this. My philosophy just differs from yours.
@Fungus, I initially linked to mp3s after seing that others did it, as there were no specific rules against it. I never uploaded mp3s directly to CSDb, others did that. I ONLY reinstalled the mp3 links after asking Hedning about it, and after an internal discussion I was told that EXTERNAL LINKS to mp3s were okay. If you think that entitles you to calling me names, it's you who has a problem, not me.
Anyway jeez, 1st world problems. Just enjoy the music guys, emulated or not, mp3 or not. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Hey CreamD, you're reprimanding Fungus for his manners, yet you agree that recording from SIDPlay is retarded, indirectly calling me retarded. Thanks, now I'm truly offended. Not :D
But seriously, none of you guys ever noticed those were emulated recordings, yet you totally go crazy when learning the fact?
Today's SID emulation is fucking awesome and I give huge kudos to those who make it possible. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3049 |
LMan hook up with Xiny6581 he might help you with recording from real machine. Or anyone else you know who does that. SidPlay "recordings" doesn't add any value. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
I agree on the level of emulation which today is good enough but don't you think that an mp3 from sidplay/w sounds exactly as the sid played with sidplay/w by everyone so it's useless? A mp3 recorded from a real machine instead could show many differences from emulated sid, especially for some 6581 which have unique sounds. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
I appreciate and love real HW recordings of my tunes. Still the SIDPlay ones are genuine. Gee I'm not forcing you guys to download the mp3. There's a favourite format for everyone. :) |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
CreamD is saying that the action "sampling from SidPlay" is a retarded action. That does not make you a retard. Same goes for me, I am not a retard (that's what my mum says at least), but sometimes I do retarded actions - like eating kamikaze strong food when drunk that almost makes me puke. Clearly retarded. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Ian, while a SIDPlay configured exactly as mine will definitely produce the same output, it is not available for all the platforms. I want people to have *easy* access to my music, without caring about emulation tools and settings. Especially regarding the fact that today's browsing is mostly done on mobile devices, where SID emu is painful.
Do you realise what you guys are trying to convince me to do is make my songs less available, and less convenient to access.
I totally accept you don't want those links on CSDb, and please give that to me that I always respected your rules and decisions. But I'll keep trying to make it as convenient as possible for people wanting to hear my tunes. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Btw on my homepage, on my song pages, I'm making sure to always include a link to the real HW recording made by Xiny6581 or someone else.
Just pick your flavour and enjoy the music! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3049 |
LMan: as far as I'm concerned. Adding recorded SidPlay streams to CSDB, is pointless. I'm pretty sure, that everyone around here can run SidPlay.
Real recordings have it's value. So it's best to get someone to make real SID recording for your release. Which I (or anyone else) would be eventually willing to share on sites with mixed audience.
CSDB is hardcore. ;-) It's so hardcore that some even do .arc and ZipCode ;-) Some people think that .sid doesn't belong here. From my experience. When you don't add .sid, you are losing significant part of audience. It's not the case with mp3 though. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
@Hedning I knew of course how "retarded" was meant. :D
@CreaMD: yeah I know all that. After all we're just exchanging perspectives, which is nice. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
seriously since that guy ages ago recorded all hvsc in several sid formats in mp3 and put it online, what does stop csdb to have all sids in mp3 too ?
I'm fuckin fed up with constantly setting up sidplay, and fighting the fucking windows bug thats there since XP which fucks up file associations constantly.
with todays download speeds its much more convinient to download an mp3. who will fuck with the real c64 to xfer stuf for every sid he wants to check out ? frankly I doudbt there's such an individual out there.
the technology is there, only the minds are still in the 20th century.
my 2 cents. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
I have my c64 hooked up beside my main PC. No big deal to have hvsc on the 1541u2 and DJ away in 2 seconds. On a daily basis I tend to use sidplay though - never a problem either. But that is not the question. Csdb can't seriously host mp3 files, and should not. Should we host avi files of every demo too? Is that the next step to please lazy iPad users? We provide the files for the c64 here, other projects - youtube channels, mp3 sites etc, can deliver PC and Apple users what they want. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
I think that's Oswald's point, to accept "convenient links", not to host the actual files. And yes I'd very much love links to avis from demos that are recorded from real HW, since for mere mortals without the appropriate equipment it 'IS' a big deal to transfer such stuff.
I'm fortunate enough to own an MMC64 so I can test my songs on the c64 without much hassle.
What's so bad in offering convenience I ask? What do you gain by removing the links, when there's obviously a lot of people who find them practical? |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3187 |
oi but are we still discussing this? let's use caps so to make it clear and loud.
WEBSITE LINK IS THERE FOR EXTERNAL MP3/AVI LINKS. IT'S PERFECTLY FINE. JUST DON'T ADD THEM AS DOWNLOAD LINKS. |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
THANK YOU! |
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LMan
Registered: Jun 2010
Posts: 79 |
Well a constructive discussion often leads to good things. For example you could consider allowing 3 types of external links: Website, Audio, and Video. With that info you could even have a HTML5 player interface on your pages. Those would be nice features, without tainting the download database. |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 598 |
iAN to the rescue!
and, what LMan said. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
hosting avis, why not ? preserving the scene doesnt mean it must be done in the original format only. modern formats would also mean a bigger audience. in 10 or 20 year it wouldnt be a problem to have all mp3's and avis on a pendrive or sd card or whatever I bet.
anyways its just my opinion dont take it as an attack, csdb goes on however it wants, its not my business. |
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Medicus
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 43 |
PDFs were also not used back in the days but can be found on csdb ;).
(slightly ironic comment *g*). |
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Jason Page
Registered: Sep 2015
Posts: 87 |
Seems to me that most of the music, demos and artwork are mainly NOT created on a c64. Yet, they still run on a c64. This is the exact same as it was in 1987 onwards for many of us. At Graftgold, we used PDS - a PC based assembler - for programming games. This allowed us to run on a c64 and debug / code / create audio / graphics on PC. Sound familiar? If we want to talk about keeping the scene "real",... Well, to me, it still is. The likes of Ash&Dave used PDS for a number of their Compunet demos too.
And we're still using whatever tools and tech exist to make stuff and let others hear/watch/play.
I can watch a YouTube video from a Facebook one of a brilliant c64 demo. That's a blessing. No amount of hardcore elitism makes me feel like I'm losing out by not loading it from a c64 disk. Hell, even the speakers I'm listening through will make any music sound different to how you hear it. Should I only listen through a CRT television from 1984 too, otherwise I'm not being hardcore enough? So griping about MP3 as a format vs a .SID ...Jeez.... For me, I'm still experiencing something wonderful. Many brilliant, creative, people who are creating great experiences for us - and for free. Something that, after 25 years of being away from the scene, I've been happy to be part of again for the past 4 months. But, I'm happy to just upload to soundcloud, if things get to nasty around here. Happy Christmas. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
M8, you've basically nailed it ;) |
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Xiny6581
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 73 |
This is why I do my recordings independent. and As said before - I am always open/available when it comes to SID Recordings. :)
Also yes, I understand(running my own site), audio/media files do eat up space incredible fast. External links are okay.
Anyhow, it seems all good now.
Peace out,
Xiny6581 |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4723 |
Good work xiny. |
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macx
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 253 |
Quote: Release site like BBS's... like the ones on...
http://cbbsoutpost.servebbs.com
surfshopbbs.zapto.org port 2300
Board Rider/CSD!
I have tried adding the Boar's Head Tavern to that listing without luck, and there is no response when trying to email the address on the contact page. Who runs it?
Boar's Head Tavern BBS | byob.hopto.org:64128 |
