Log inRegister an accountBrowse CSDbHelp & documentationFacts & StatisticsThe forumsAvailable RSS-feeds on CSDbSupport CSDb Commodore 64 Scene Database
You are not logged in - nap
CSDb User Forums


Forums > CSDb Feedback > weighted average?
2005-07-06 19:05
Nightlord

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131
weighted average?

ok something i just noticed when i was voting for alih.

the guy has 6 9's and 3 8's and a 1 from a downvoter. his weighted average turns out to be 7.7.

now if we took the arithmetic average. it would be
(6 x 9) + (3 x 8) + 1 = 79 divided by 10 would be ~ 7.9

so the weighted average function was supposed to be able to recognize downvoting and perform better than arithmetic average. I say something is wrong.

not only the real average should have been somewhere in high 8's, but also the csdb function works even worse than the arithmetic average.

am i making a calculation mistake or something?
 
... 27 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....
 
2020-08-15 18:46
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289
I applied my compo voting formula to musicians' charts for fun:

25Hz Compo average calculator

It's simple like hell but question is if it does the right job, besides weeding out unpopular votes:
(10 * #10s^2 + 9 * #9s^2 + 8 * #8s^2 + 7 * #7s^2 + 6 * #6s^2 + 5 * #5s^2 + 4 * #4s^2 + 3 * #3s^2 + 2 * #2s^2 + #1s^2) / (#10s^2 + #9s^2 + #8s^2 + #7s^2 + #6s^2 + #5s^2 + #4s^2 + #3s^2 + #2s^2 + #1s^2)

It surely inflates average if devote fans and groupmates throw their handful of 10s but this effect applies equally to every popular value so it's honest in this respect.
2020-08-16 10:17
F7sus4

Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 112
I remember seeing a video here at the forums where one guy did vote 1 to 10 to see how the voting system behaves. The conclusion was that it more-or-less ignores a few 1-3 point votes before starting to take them into the equation. Which is why downvoting with 4 became popular.

Note that having public votes would prevent most of it.
2020-08-16 10:17
Krill

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2847
How does it perform against CSDb Voter Pro 1.0 ? :)
2020-08-16 10:39
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289
Quoting F7sus4
I remember seeing a video here at the forums where one guy did vote 1 to 10 to see how the voting system behaves. The conclusion was that it more-or-less ignores a few 1-3 point votes before starting to take them into the equation. Which is why downvoting with 4 became popular.

Formula is not weighted at all (but can be, like everything else). You make things bad with downright 1 but you need quite a lot of 1s so lonely vigilantes stand no bigger chance against cluster of other grades ;)


Quoting F7sus4
Note that having public votes would prevent most of it.

I'd opt for public votes as well but in practice it prevents people mostly from voting at all :D


Quoting Krill
How does it perform against CSDb Voter Pro 1.0 ? :)

LMAO! :D
2020-08-16 11:42
F7sus4

Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 112
Quoting Jammer
You make things bad with downright 1 but you need quite a lot of 1s so lonely vigilantes stand no bigger chance against cluster of other grades ;)


All calculation formulas are prone to generate some (positive or negative) bias in one way or another, but will be exploited only if there are people willing to do so.

On the other hand, there is no "perfect" system. Utilizing absolute (numeric) measures by people attributing arbitrary criteria generates bias, but so does the dispersion of the scale (10-point scales generate way more 8-9s for "very good" works, whereas in 5-point scales it is almost exclusively 5) because psychology, and so on, and so on.
2020-08-16 12:21
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289
Quoting F7sus4
All calculation formulas are prone to generate some (positive or negative) bias in one way or another, but will be exploited only if there are people willing to do so.

On the other hand, there is no "perfect" system. Utilizing absolute (numeric) measures by people attributing arbitrary criteria generates bias, but so does the dispersion of the scale (10-point scales generate way more 8-9s for "very good" works, whereas in 5-point scales it is almost exclusively 5) because psychology, and so on, and so on.


Psychological bias can't really be avoided and it's IMHO not a system's job to compensate for it. It's easier and better to eradicate single malicious actions. If more people gave a prod weak grades, there certainly must be sth to it, obviously, and there's no need to fix it. This particular formula certainly doesn't aim for fixing biases, it just amplifies frequent votes and therefore assures stability of calculated result.
2020-08-16 12:51
F7sus4

Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 112
Quoting Jammer
Psychological bias can't really be avoided and it's IMHO not a system's job to compensate for it. It's easier and better to eradicate single malicious actions.


Note that this solution does nothing but implement a psychological factor into systemic compensation, as it is based on assumption that one or several votes were malicious/beneficial solely because they went against what most people said. That doesn't need to be true, and excluding them leads to self-confirmation bias, which is an equally rigged outcome.
2020-08-16 13:03
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289
Quoting F7sus4
Note that this solution does nothing but implement a psychological factor into systemic compensation, as it is based on assumption that one or several votes were malicious/beneficial solely because they went against what most people said. That doesn't need to be true, and excluding them leads to self-confirmation bias, which is an equally rigged outcome.


That's right. But what interests me most is stable result, not quite people's thinking - whatever the bias comes out ;) Try it out:

Simple Average with ^2 Votecount
2020-08-16 13:30
Frostbyte

Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 169
Oops, sorry - that was me changing the values on spreadsheet. :)

The weighing seems to work reasonably well in lessening the effect of single or even a few downvotes. One change that would accompany this very well would be to show two decimals in the CSDB scores on the prod pages, not just in the top lists.
2020-08-16 13:33
Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1289
Quoting JojeliOne change that would accompany this very well would be to show two decimals in the CSDB scores on the prod pages, not just in the top lists.[/quote

All top prods would basically look like

All top prods would basically look like 9.99 :D
Previous - 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 - Next
RefreshSubscribe to this thread:

You need to be logged in to post in the forum.

Search the forum:
Search   for   in  
All times are CET.
Search CSDb
Advanced
Users Online
Almighty God/Level 6..
E$G/hOKUtO fOrcE
mutetus/Ald ^ Ons
goerp/F4CG
niallquinn
Kakka/Extend, Damone..
Apollyon/ALD
Guests online: 131
Top Demos
1 Next Level  (9.8)
2 Mojo  (9.7)
3 Coma Light 13  (9.7)
4 Edge of Disgrace  (9.6)
5 Comaland 100%  (9.6)
6 No Bounds  (9.6)
7 Uncensored  (9.6)
8 Wonderland XIV  (9.6)
9 Memento Mori  (9.6)
10 Bromance  (9.5)
Top onefile Demos
1 It's More Fun to Com..  (9.7)
2 Party Elk 2  (9.7)
3 Cubic Dream  (9.6)
4 Copper Booze  (9.5)
5 TRSAC, Gabber & Pebe..  (9.5)
6 Rainbow Connection  (9.5)
7 Wafer Demo  (9.5)
8 Dawnfall V1.1  (9.5)
9 Quadrants  (9.5)
10 Daah, Those Acid Pil..  (9.5)
Top Groups
1 Nostalgia  (9.3)
2 Oxyron  (9.3)
3 Booze Design  (9.3)
4 Censor Design  (9.3)
5 Crest  (9.3)
Top Webmasters
1 Slaygon  (9.7)
2 Perff  (9.6)
3 Morpheus  (9.5)
4 Sabbi  (9.5)
5 CreaMD  (9.1)

Home - Disclaimer
Copyright © No Name 2001-2024
Page generated in: 0.046 sec.