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Laurent
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 40 |
The 6581 has fallen into oblivion
Musicians seem to have lost interest for the original 6581 model.
Is it because of how it sounds (low resonant filter, combined waveforms) or because of technical challenges (huge filter variability between revisions, quality of filter emulation) ?
There are so many 6581 tunes that we all enjoy that I cannot believe the "sound" is the issue.
The funky distorted 6581 filter is absolutely loveable, not better or worse than 8580's, just different.
There are so many awesome examples..
Googachild
Miami Vice
4-Mat's Filter
Dirty Pair
Now that reSID is doing a good job at emulating the 6581, I assume one of last issues is that musicians have no guarantee that a tune will be played back correctly, with the same filter characteristics that they used when composing their tunes. Especially when they're played on a real c64, it just cannot work perfectly.
As of today, even if we wanted to organize a 6581 music competition it would be laborious to play them back correctly even with an emulator.
Some extra info could be certainly added to a .sid header, but running the .prg in Vice would be more difficult, the SID player init code would have to write to some unused SID addresses to "configure" the SID. This would please all emulators but would have no effect on the real thing (except if it had an emulated chip)..
Do you believe the 6581 is doomed ? :( |
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Laurent
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 40 |
Of course :-P but there is still value to store info that describes the SID model that was used to compose the tune, and I believe the best place is in the player, which would prevent fiddling around with the emulator configuration. |
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Laurent
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 40 |
Really, this is about improving things for the 6581. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11118 |
You'd have to put much more info there than a byte or two - and then you couldnt reproduce it on a different SID anyway. So what is the point?
Different Guitar sounds different. Deal with it :) |
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Laurent
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 40 |
Maybe not two, but not that many, and you could also refer to a bunch of common 6581 presets with a single byte.
Isn't it valuable to know how a 6581 tune sounded like when the composer made it ?
I agree with you this cannot be known with a real c64/real 6581 but at least this can work with a c64 emulator or when using deepsid. Better than nothing.
Jakob's Lullaby #1
Jakob's Lullaby #2
Jakob's Lullaby #3
Jakob's Lullaby @ X2010
I assume the "good" one is the last one because it was played at X ? But maybe Stein composed it with another SID that sounded like #3 ? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11118 |
Still not sure what the point is though. I listen to C64 music on my C64 - and then it sounds like it sounds. Couldnt care less about emu in that regard :) |
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Viralbox
Registered: Nov 2021
Posts: 15 |
Quoting Laurent
Do you believe the 6581 is doomed ? :(
No. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2076 |
Quoting LaurentReally, this is about improving things for the 6581.
All you can do to workaround against the well-known shortcomings is
a) DON'T use filters at all (you'd be surprised how many cool tunes from the 1980s don't)
b) use filters and then fiddle around with the registers as long as it sounds adequate on a wide range of ICs (or reSID emulation if you like, although some of the reSID 6581 examples are really extreme, did not come across real ICs who behave like that yet) |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 833 |
Quote:b) use filters and then fiddle around with the registers as long as it sounds adequate on a wide range of ICs
That would be pretty straight forward for SIDs that use filters for leads or simple bass-line. For filtered drum-sets, not as much.
For the latter I would have code to overwrite parts of the wave-table/filter-table to make 6581-beautiful drum-sets, if one was to really make one's 8580 masterpiece 6581-friendly.
BTW, come back Soren/Jeff! ;) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 445 |
Quoting ConradFor the latter I would have code to overwrite parts of the wave-table/filter-table to make 6581-beautiful drum-sets, if one was to really make one's 8580 masterpiece 6581-friendly.
I doubt it is even possible to convert any 8580 drum sound with fast filter switchting to 6581 without loosing the characteristics that defined the sound in the first place.
You can adjust the values, but you can't reliably get rid of that horrible "pop" / "crack" sound when switching filter bands. It works for some combinations (I guess waveform and frequency does also matter here) but everytime I thought I had a strategy it turned out to be just lucky guesswork in a particular case.
It's maybe a compo idea:
"6581 heavy filterband switch without crackling compo" ;-)
The entry with the most switches and least crackling sounds wins.
Of course all participants would also have to send a 6581 around via snailmail so the results can then be recorded on that SID and be compared :-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11118 |
Reminds me of Cybertracker and how horrible "filter interlace" sounded on my C64 (with 6581) :) |
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