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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Votesystem FAIL
OK, so why the vote system still exists, especially after all the devastating things it produces, is absolutely way beyond me.
It's rarely a representation of an objective, summarized opinion of the community. Either it's a playground for immature ding-dong fights I've had the luck to experience the last time in kindergarten, or it's simply a place for good old fashioned circlejerks.
I second Scout. At least I second the notion that this isn't really a place where I'd like to spend my spare time.
The constant pop-ups of topics considering the defecting vote-system is clearly a sign of something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years.
Captain obvious is here to present you two options. One is to finally fix it, the other is to remove it for good. The latter one would be probably the best for all of us. And I think I'm speaking in the name of 99% of CSDb users here when I say that. Time to realize we are not IMDb with hundreds of millions of users, where a similar voting model works (more or less). Here, it's flawed and it simply fails on many, many levels
Pretty pretty please. Dudes who make and administer this site. Your work is fucking damn appreciated. I'd suck of all of you without a single second of consideration.
But for fucks sake. |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547 |
please makez az wouté-zystem wizh nomberz from -236572 to 12839723752.237881 !!!!!1
End of thread!
Game Over !
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Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
When this post is written, the amount of voters are 1775 and together make up the sum of 74842 votes. At the current Csdb consists of 81190 releases. This means that there are not enough of voters and votes made to make all of the csdb releases carry their weightened vote. In fact that only theoretically covers for about 14968 releases, since the system is based upon that 5 voters give their votes all together. That's about 18% of all the csdb releases. Think about it!
Now to make things even worse we all know that far from every release have even got that attention and since there are only 1775 active voters, and most of them have only given away some aprox 40+ votes that does not make up to much. To simply state the obvious: people are good at talking much, worse at producing change.
I have for my own part voted on 8793 releases, which only covers about 10% of all the database of releases and requires at least four more people to equally vote on all those 10% in order for the charts to actually change. My votes are not making much change, except for in some cases those small productions that have not gotten that much of votes. Of course, with the current weightened algorithm, that is both as true as it is a lie.
Now. The way I see it, there are many different tactics to get around with the current vote system. One way would simply to change the amount of voters necessary in order for a release to get a weighted vote. For instance, instead of 5 people, with ten votes many of the releases that are on csdb now, would fall out of the charts completely. Others would still stay in the same chart position as they are now (with all those down- and upvotes, cowardvotes, friendpoints or whatever you decide to call it.) Probably not so much of a win-win-situation there for anyone.
If the amount of votes would be changed to one instead, then as I have shown at least in theory we could cover about 92% of the csdb releases. Not sure that would give much either, since it would make the charts list extremely large. And considering how the algorithm works, not sure it would give that much back. So back to square one. How to deal with the problem that causes so much emotional pain ?
Showing off the votes, would clearly give a good hint of what some of the most active voters think , but considering that there are only about some 135 people that actually bothered to click and vote on some 100 different releases, it would not give so much. If we look at some of the top demos, and images. There are not more than aprox 200 votes anyways for the top productions, which clearly tells us something about the diversity and heterogenity of our community. Showing off the votes public or not would still not change the fact that there are releases that have been given the vote 1.
So what about changing the algorithm of the weighened vote? One way would be to consider stuff like amount of downloads, amount of voters that actually cared enough to vote, and what they voted. But then the more complex the formula grow, how much more would it give back to the users and the community as a whole? A release with about 1 download but with some odd 50+ votes, would clearly only show that most people where too lazy to download it but probably only checked the release via the website (for instance a image) or perhaps it could be explained by the fact that the release was older and therefor already been a part of our collective memory (both in it's more literal but also metaphoric sense). Another example is where you have a release that has been downloaded for aprox 500 times, but only with about some 20 voters. It could of course be explained with the lack of local storage needs.
Anyways. Just check the numbers. They are all in the database.. I hope this will give you something . Thank you for your attention. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
OMG Ed, even the density of your text made my head hurt, I'm afraid of actually reading it.
Edit: okay read it. This is why Enthusi's idea would work the best here.
Once again:
Quoting enthusiEach CSDb-scener has alist of 5 (or 10) all-time-fav demos/gfx/crack/tools (or just releases).
Those are public :) [though that is not necessary for this system]
The Top 10 of each category is generated daily based on the overall number a release appears in one of those lists.
So if 100 people have DeuxExMachine in their top5 this is better than a demo that only 90 people consider their personal top5.
This will give weight to old releases as well and nothing will/can be downvoted...
I see no point in differing between VERY bad and VERY VERY bad like it is now...
We need a BESTOF and that's all...
Downvoting will then be equal to NOT having a demo in his/her own list ;-)
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Ed
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173 |
Quote: OMG Ed, even the density of your text made my head hurt, I'm afraid of actually reading it.
Edit: okay read it. This is why Enthusi's idea would work the best here.
Once again:
Quoting enthusiEach CSDb-scener has alist of 5 (or 10) all-time-fav demos/gfx/crack/tools (or just releases).
Those are public :) [though that is not necessary for this system]
The Top 10 of each category is generated daily based on the overall number a release appears in one of those lists.
So if 100 people have DeuxExMachine in their top5 this is better than a demo that only 90 people consider their personal top5.
This will give weight to old releases as well and nothing will/can be downvoted...
I see no point in differing between VERY bad and VERY VERY bad like it is now...
We need a BESTOF and that's all...
Downvoting will then be equal to NOT having a demo in his/her own list ;-)
Yeah. I guess going back to how votes worked in ze good old days will make us all happy... :)
Did anybody check how imdb does it?
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
By the way Ed, excellent analysis. A perfect showdown on why the current votesystem is totally obscure and useless, and will never work as intended even in 20 years.
Quoting EdDid anybody check how imdb does it?
Let me guess. With thousands of users and perhaps millions of votes? |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 226 |
...I'd wish the disc-magazines returned with the Charts as well... |
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Joe
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 226 |
...I'd wish the disc-magazines returned with the Charts as well... |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576 |
Quoting Joe...I'd wish the disc-magazines returned with the Charts as well...
Yeah, and nifty snailmail votesheets! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5076 |
how about this: only thumb ups, the more the better. downvoting is impossible :) |
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TWW
Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 543 |
Quote: how about this: only thumb ups, the more the better. downvoting is impossible :)
WHAT NO DOWNWOTING???
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