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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Votesystem FAIL
OK, so why the vote system still exists, especially after all the devastating things it produces, is absolutely way beyond me.
It's rarely a representation of an objective, summarized opinion of the community. Either it's a playground for immature ding-dong fights I've had the luck to experience the last time in kindergarten, or it's simply a place for good old fashioned circlejerks.
I second Scout. At least I second the notion that this isn't really a place where I'd like to spend my spare time.
The constant pop-ups of topics considering the defecting vote-system is clearly a sign of something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years.
Captain obvious is here to present you two options. One is to finally fix it, the other is to remove it for good. The latter one would be probably the best for all of us. And I think I'm speaking in the name of 99% of CSDb users here when I say that. Time to realize we are not IMDb with hundreds of millions of users, where a similar voting model works (more or less). Here, it's flawed and it simply fails on many, many levels
Pretty pretty please. Dudes who make and administer this site. Your work is fucking damn appreciated. I'd suck of all of you without a single second of consideration.
But for fucks sake. |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
I agree.
Votes for a release-specific rating and my(tm) idea for all-time charts.
I would prefer max of 20 entries but other than that an arbitrary number (0-20).
Also Id prefer 6 separate categories, but only main ones.
1) demo
2) crack
3) gfx (only one for all formats!)
4) SID
5) tool (incl. cross platform)
6) game
For further reference I call this proposal
enthusi_1.0 *g*
The sixth category is limited to scene releases.
I admit this one is discussable.
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Linus
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639 |
Quote:min no. of votes can be set higher to avoid entries pupping up on 1st place with only a few votes.
I am all for it. Setting the minimum number of votes to 10 should already improve the system quite a bit.
Quote:Perhaps doing something to get more to vote?
As others pointed out, one should be able to vote directly without being taken to another page. It´s 2009 after all, so maybe you could think about implementing an AJAX solution :) Not sure if that would be enough to seriously raise the number of votes, tho.
What about adding some sort of infobox that appears when a user has not voted for a release yet aswell?
Quote:Then I can sense that the idea about an all-time-fav list is liked here?
If it's made it will not replace the current ratings, as I think this system has one big flaw. It only regards the very best releases. Mid-class stuff will never apear on any all-time-fav list, and will therefor not get rated at all, and that is a shame I think.
I can only second that.
While you´re at it ... I would very much like to be able to vote for .sid entries aswell :) Having some sort of sid chart would be quite interesting, I think. |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
It's really great to see some progress here. Especially happy to finally see a response from Perff. Thanks.
Since you made it obvious that you don't want to dismiss the current votesystem, I'd definitely welcome the increase of minimal number of votes for the average calculation. And thinking further on this, how about setting a minimal number of votes for getting into the Top 10 (a similar idea that IMDb does with Top 250) to the average number of all the votes in the category? So lets say, a release would need 7.6 votes to enter the Top 10 area on a release-list with 15 entries and 115 votes. That would eliminate the highly upvoted releases with much less votes than the average release in the category, to suddenly jump into the Top 10. By just looking on the number of votes, that would mean that a release would need at least ~35 votes to get on the Top Demo list. Considering that most of the (popular) demos have at least 30-40 votes, that's quite a fair number. So we'd never seen something like the Thrust Concert appearing on the Top 10 (even it has more than 10 votes)
Considering filtering out the unusual votes. I don't know if you've implemented this yet: filtering out not just the unusually too low/high votes from a certain release, but also filtering out the votes from those users who have an unusual number of too low/high votes without a natural spread around the mid-range. That won't help all the time, right, but could help in some special cases. Edit: just popped into my mind, this would filter out Groepaz, so he'll probably oppose this idea =)
Considering the rest, I second Enthusi and Linus. Except the AJAX thing. :) That won't work too well on boxes with FF/NoScript or simply turned of JS support.
If you haven't found anyone yet, I'd be happy to help out with graphics.
And for all those who were thinking it's "cool" to bitch about the long thread, please keep it to yourself next time. Or wait till we open a similar giganto-topic about the need for tags :) *message sponsored by Oswald™ |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
agreed,
BUT:
why filter out votes?
Once there is an all-time-best chart we dont need that:
vote 1 == I dont like it - no matter if its a 'down'vote
vote 10 == I like it, even if its his/her own groupmate |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Quoting enthusiagreed,
BUT:
why filter out votes?
Once there is an all-time-best chart we dont need that:
vote 1 == I dont like it - no matter if its a 'down'vote
vote 10 == I like it, even if its his/her own groupmate
Wait, so your idea, the all time best would actually replace the old votesystem? Or the charts and the (improved) old votesystem would co-exist? How many types of charts would we have around here? Honestly, I don't follow any more =) |
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enthusi
Registered: May 2004
Posts: 677 |
2 systems in parallel.
1) best-of charts based on fav-list
2) rating for each release (more or less like before) |
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jailbird
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578 |
Ah, I get it.
Well, the "unnatural-vote" filtering already exists on releases so the idea I proposed would only make it a tiny bit better (if at all), but I see your point. Fine with me, then. |
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Stone
Registered: Oct 2006
Posts: 172 |
I think this all depends on what you want from the votesystem. This is obviously going to be something different for everybody. Since I've been away from the scene for many many years, I would like to see what I've missed out on. So all-time top-lists (more than top 10) for demos, sids (categorized perhaps?) and so on would be a good starting point. As I start voting myself, I could perhaps have scores weighted for instance by groups/composers that I like (determined by my voting record) or that I would potentially like (determined by the voting record of others with similar taste to my own). What you would get from this is a sort of perzonalized top-list, probably similiar to how online stores and music sites make recommendations for you.
Come to think of it, this has more to do with search functionality than the actual voting system... Well, never mind, just brainstorming. |
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yonx
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2003
Posts: 31 |
perhaps this could be something
http://www.thebroth.com/blog/118/bayesian-rating
it compensates for lack of votes by weighing releases with few votes towards the site-average thus making downvotes on such productions less powerful, works pretty good where i have seen it in action.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11350 |
Quote:Considering filtering out the unusual votes. I don't know if you've implemented this yet: filtering out not just the unusually too low/high votes from a certain release, but also filtering out the votes from those users who have an unusual number of too low/high votes without a natural spread around the mid-range. That won't help all the time, right, but could help in some special cases. Edit: just popped into my mind, this would filter out Groepaz, so he'll probably oppose this idea =)
two thing:
a) i know how the filtering works, and i know that a lot of my votes ARE filtered already :) infact i could give my votes 100% more statistical impact by dileberatly voting differently, but i dont care enough really :)
b) i am still very much against filtering. it doesnt help much at all, and its a big statistical nono too. with 10 votes on an entry, filtering wont make the numbers less meaningless =P
another thing that hasnt been mentioned yet: there is another big flaw in the system.... people can see the result of the votes before they voted themselves. that should be changed, if you didnt vote on something, then you shouldnt be able to see the result at all. this might also increase the number of people who actually vote :) oh and, you obviously shouldnt be able to change your vote either, thats kinda stupid. (or make it so that you can change it only after some weeks or so)
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