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Forums > CSDb Discussions > Votesystem FAIL
2009-11-18 06:54
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576
Votesystem FAIL

OK, so why the vote system still exists, especially after all the devastating things it produces, is absolutely way beyond me.
It's rarely a representation of an objective, summarized opinion of the community. Either it's a playground for immature ding-dong fights I've had the luck to experience the last time in kindergarten, or it's simply a place for good old fashioned circlejerks.

I second Scout. At least I second the notion that this isn't really a place where I'd like to spend my spare time.

The constant pop-ups of topics considering the defecting vote-system is clearly a sign of something not working here the way it should. And yet, the cry ups keep getting ignored. For years.

Captain obvious is here to present you two options. One is to finally fix it, the other is to remove it for good. The latter one would be probably the best for all of us. And I think I'm speaking in the name of 99% of CSDb users here when I say that. Time to realize we are not IMDb with hundreds of millions of users, where a similar voting model works (more or less). Here, it's flawed and it simply fails on many, many levels

Pretty pretty please. Dudes who make and administer this site. Your work is fucking damn appreciated. I'd suck of all of you without a single second of consideration.

But for fucks sake.
 
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2009-11-19 22:08
GT
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308
Quote: Quoting Groepaz
i dont see any sign of "majority" in this thread, really.

Really? Interesting, as I remember about a certain poll where the majority voted for removing the option for anonymous voting.


You're correct. I wouldn't brought that up if there wasn't a majority in this forum. I don't care about the votes, but I see they are totally misleading.
2009-11-19 22:09
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293
Quote:
Non-Anonymous voting will also lead to more thought-through voting and show a more realistic result.


so, why do democratic states have secret voting on elections, if making the votes public could possibly lead to more thought through voting and thus a better result?

Quote:
What I disagree with, is that the only solution here would be to send sensitive/responsive people to seek for professional help whilst continuing to ignore the obvious problems. The usual storm of indignation which covers this whole topic is a clear sign that there are way too many introvert geeks on this site who are extremely touchy when it comes to unfairness and injustice. On the other hand, it's more than fairly obvious that there is a group of anti-social nerds who solve their problems by irritating the aforementioned ones. Catch 22, it is :)


what people should simply realise is that the whole idea of "lets have votings so we can have nice objective stats on every release" is completely flawed. the ONLY way to fix the voting is to have many more actual voters. you cant compute any half meaningful value from 20 votes, thats just completely pointless - and thinking making votes public would change that fact is just utterly stupid be itself.

Quote:
And don't be obsessed by the fact that anonymous votes really works, because it don't. The voting system as it is now is NOT a thumb up or thumb down.


i am not obsessed by the fact that anonymous voting "works" (whatever that means). i am just pointing out that making them public would NOT fix the current situation with the voting system.

i totally agree that the voting results are broken - because not enough people voted - and therefor they shouldnt be taken seriously.
2009-11-19 22:13
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293
Quote:
Really? Interesting, as I remember about a certain poll where the majority voted for removing the option for anonymous voting.


what poll would that be, and how many of the ~1500 users voted, and how many of them formed said "majority" ? i'd be surprised if more than 20 even bothered to read the thread =P

Quote:
And that's a very good argument why should we dismiss it.

i have said that often enough, i would remove it right away :) but i am NOT with the majority here =)
2009-11-19 22:16
GT
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308
THIS is not politics.

OK. We agree in one thing: not enough voters.

BUT That is because the system doesn't work. It is fucked up. So users doesn't care of voting at all.

PROBLEM with anonymous voting:
Fake, double, triple, accounts.
Manupulating to get your group or whatever to look better.
Voting either 1 or 10, like Groepaz
Having some dissagreements and arguments, leads to downvoting

Just a small list...

2009-11-19 22:21
GT
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308
And finally:
What are "we" afraid of ?

"Fear of the Dark"
- Iron Maiden
2009-11-19 22:32
Stainless Steel

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966
While I myself am guilty of being curious to know who exactly "downvoted" what, I'm afraid I'm with Groepaz here.
Imagine the shitstorm that would break loose if suddenly everyone could see who voted 1 on his release etc.

Chaos would ensue.

The downfall of humanity, armageddon .. 2012 all over CSDb.
2009-11-19 22:38
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576
Quoting Groepaz
so, why do democratic states have secret voting on elections, if making the votes public could possibly lead to more thought through voting and thus a better result?

Apples and oranges. For God's sake, we're not voting here about the next government, we're stating simpleton opinions on works of people we know and share our stupid hobby with.

Quoting Groepaz

what people should simply realise is that the whole idea of "lets have votings so we can have nice objective stats on every release" is completely flawed. the ONLY way to fix the voting is to have many more actual voters. you cant compute any half meaningful value from 20 votes, thats just completely pointless - and thinking making votes public would change that fact is just utterly stupid be itself.

Agreed. But when will we have enough votes for a fair stats? In 5 years? Or 10, 20? In that case, we could face away from it for another decade till it gets better. All done.

Quoting Groepaz

i am not obsessed by the fact that anonymous voting "works" (whatever that means). i am just pointing out that making them public would NOT fix the current situation with the voting system.

Well if nothing else, public voting will at least make most of the downvoters to delete their shifty votes. Anyway, it won't make the system worse, that's for sure. But what we'd actually avoiding with it, is the negative social aspect it produces, which is seemingly none of your concern. What about less disagreements, uproars, confrontations, pointings, "backstabbing", etc. etc. You name it.

2009-11-19 22:39
GT
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308
Quote: While I myself am guilty of being curious to know who exactly "downvoted" what, I'm afraid I'm with Groepaz here.
Imagine the shitstorm that would break loose if suddenly everyone could see who voted 1 on his release etc.

Chaos would ensue.

The downfall of humanity, armageddon .. 2012 all over CSDb.


Easy. Just put out the news beforehand. You have a month to delete your stupid votes, or they get public entertainment.
2009-11-19 22:54
Kristian

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 126
First of all, I don't think a public votingsystem would be more fair than an anonymous system. Quite the contrary. I think most people would give a higher vote if they knew they might have to defend their vote later. Nobody wants to be the asshole.

There might be a problem with double and triple accounts, but that got to be fixed another way.

In my opinion the biggest mistake with the voting system today is the scale of one to ten. It should be reduced to something like one to three, or five at maximum. This would take away much of the effect of downvoting.

I'd probably vote for removing the chart system and keep the votes visible for releases only (only to give people a clue what others may have thought of it). I don't know how to explain this any better, but the way the charts work today just seem kinda weird to me.
2009-11-19 23:00
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293
Quote:
THIS is not politics.

everything in life is politics :) also, the same applies to any sort of voting.

Quote:
OK. We agree in one thing: not enough voters.

BUT That is because the system doesn't work. It is fucked up. So users doesn't care of voting at all.


thats your assumption, based on the assumption that if the voting would "work" suddenly everyone would start voting like there is no tomorrow.

more close to the truth is, that the relation between number of entries in the database and active users (assume that about 10% visit the site frequently) is simply way too unfortunate to ever result in a reasonable number of votes per entry. the current #1 top voter has voted for 10% of the entries during how many years, 10?

Quote:
PROBLEM with anonymous voting:
Fake, double, triple, accounts.

that wont be affected by making votes public at all. its also not too much of a problem anymore, like said before. on top of that, since moderators actually can see everyones votes, it can easily be spotted if suspected.
Quote:
Manupulating to get your group or whatever to look better.

why would making my votes public stop me from voting 10 for my group or my releases?
Quote:
Voting either 1 or 10, like Groepaz

and how would it change that?
Quote:
Having some dissagreements and arguments, leads to downvoting

and what is "downvoting" anyway? everyone is free to vote whatever he wants, isnt he?
Quote:
Agreed. But when will we have enough votes for a fair stats? In 5 years? Or 10, 20? In that case, we could face away from it for another decade till it gets better. All done.

see above :) IMHO atleast a long long time will pass until enough votes for a reasonable amount of entries in the database are collected. and speaking for myself i can say, that the major reason for me to not really take the voting stuff serious at all is that there are tons of other much more important things to fix and to do concerning the database. and that seems to be the general opinion among most of who are adding and fixing entries.
Quote:
Well if nothing else, public voting will at least make most of the downvoters to delete their shifty votes. Anyway, it won't make the system worse, that's for sure. But what we'd actually avoiding with it, is the negative social aspect it produces, which is seemingly none of your concern. What about less disagreements, uproars, confrontations, pointings, "backstabbing", etc. etc. You name it.

i seriously doubt it would result in less of all that, quite the contrary. the stream of votes and revenge votes and flaming because someone voted a 5 for something that so totally kicks ass it atleast deserves a 9, i dont want to see it. the concern about the social aspect is exactly why making your votes public is completely your own choice.
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