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2007-10-21 03:46

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Group id #274 : Wrath Designs

ok, time for some spanking again i guess =P

first:

some time ago you guys in WD decided to change your handles into your real names. ok. so far so good. however, the proper way to reflect that change in the database is:

- create a new handle in your scener entry
- add that handle as a member to your group with proper dates
- set that handle as your current handle

it is NOT the proper way to simply change the handle in the entry into something completely different, and create a new entry with your OLD handle. YOU DID IT WRONG SIR =P

as a result, now all the credits for your groups releases are fucked up beyond repair (they show the new handle were it should show the old one which was used when those entries were released).

the good thing however is, that you guys locked all your entries, and as such are responsible to fix the mess yourself =P since the way it works is not terribly intiutive i have helped you so far that i created the missing handles, and added them as members, but fixing the credits - that i leave to you as an exercise =) (hint: when someone only released few things, or even nothing, since the change, you might rename the entry of the new handle into the old one again, and the other way around, so you dont need to edit all that many entries).

second:

when you add a release, the releasedate should always reflect the date when the actual file(s) you are adding were released. and yes, that means when you rip out the gfx or tunes from a 10 year old release and release them today, the releasedate is _today_.

thank you for your attention, your help is appreciated :o)

2007-10-22 16:12

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

tjam, to make it clear how it should look like, i fixed http://noname.c64.org/csdb/scener/index.php?id=6809&allhandles=1 ...

2007-10-22 22:08

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

oh dear... after talking to djinn i understand whats the misunderstanding here, and that my conclusion that you guys actually changed your handles was wrong.

if i interpret djinn correctly, your intention of _renaming_ your handles into your real names was to reflect and demonstrate that you as a group are more than "just a commodore 64 demo group". thats fine but, csdb can neither reflect this, nor is it the place to do so. the "handles" used in credits and group membership are exactly that, and should reflect what you guys use to refer to yourself in actual c64 productions. as hard as it might sound to you, but how you refer to yourself in some non c64 scene related painting or art project or whatever is irrelevant in the context of csdb. i suggest putting such info into the "trivia" section of your groups entry.

so, djinn already fixed his entry... i will do it for the others. (and let me do it, it's easy to accidently loose information -such as credits- when you are not familiar with the order of how things should be transfered and deleted).

sorry for the confusion :)

2007-10-22 22:36

Ed

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173

All your ideas and editing has made our release-list look awkward today.

The complete handle-story is a bit more complex than to what have come to your notice. There is a human behind our releases: We never made a difference between "real-life" and computer-creativity, the handles were mere skin. We wanted to mark our presence as persons, not mere dead matter in this hard community of ours. We have no reason to hide, blur our pictures or escape the truth. This is who we are and this is who we are going to stay, no matter death, marriage or whatever.

You can go ahead and revise history and all that, but it wont change facts. What you just did, was way out of league but go ahead. Have fun. Oh, a new spam as some would have called it is coming soon. And what are you going to do about it? Change all the release dates into something more fitting? The stuff was not made in 2007 we can assure you.

/ James, Eddie, Robin, Carl-Johan, Khaled, Joonas, Peter, Marcin. Oh and Stash (Laszlo!)

2007-10-22 22:47

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

All your ideas and editing has made our release-list look awkward today.

interisting that you think so. as i see it, the credits were simply wrong before, as to the way of how this database works. you may have a different idea of how it _should_ work, thats fine. you may discuss that with perff, or in public, or whatever. but please understand that there cant be different rules for everyone, and the database only works like it should when the same rules are applied to all people.

Quote:

The complete handle-story is a bit more complex than to what have come to your notice. There is a human behind our releases: We never made a difference between "real-life" and computer-creativity, the handles were mere skin. We wanted to mark our presence as persons, not mere dead matter in this hard community of ours. We have no reason to hide, blur our pictures or escape the truth. This is who we are and this is who we are going to stay, no matter death, marriage or whatever.

i can hear you. but still, when it says "ed/wd" in a demo, it should be credited as such in the database. it is that simple.

or in other words, if what you want so desperatly is to show your real names in the credits, use them in your demos :=)

in any case, you can't retroactivly change what has already been done in your own releases. atleast not in the context of this database, which is purely ment to document history, not to demonstrate your personal lifestyle and way of life. use your demos for that :)

Quote:

You can go ahead and revise history and all that, but it won’t change facts. What you just did, was way out of league but go ahead. Have fun. Oh, a new spam as some would have called it is coming soon. And what are you going to do about it? Change all the release dates into something more fitting? The stuff was not made in 2007 we can assure you.

so? it doesn't matter when it was created. what you enter into the database is the date of release, not creation. yes really, it IS that simple.

again, the point of the database is to document facts and actual happenings. a picture drawn 10 years ago which didnt see the light until today cant be dated as if it was released 10 years ago. and taking a part of a 10 year old production, and releasing it in a different form today, will make it a different release, released today.

yes it might be a flaw in the database that it doesnt allow to enter the date of creation. however that doesnt mean that you should abuse the releasedate for that. this sort of info should be put into the trivia section, or the production notes, whatever you see fit.

2007-10-29 10:53

Ed

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173

@Groepaz: Ok there are so much we could go on and debate about forever, but here is how I see it:

Ok, we made a mistake some time ago. A big one according to you and for that we are sorry. I am sorry.

The upload season has just started, every upload will recieve a upload date (actually all releases gets one, which in many ways than one make the "released date:"-thing quite useless. Why not a "copyright date:" was chosen in the first place seem to be a mystery. It would have been better all together. )

After discussing with my fellow group members, a majority have come to the conclusion that we do not share your view of what a release date is. But we have chosen to conform this time and every bit of old release will be fixed accordingly to the dating-standards.

Most of the stuff that have been uploaded here have been in one way or another released before hand. The majority of the music stuff I am uploading here for the moment on a regular basis have been released before hand to such people as for instance the WD-people, Kjell Nordbo, Jucke, Deekay, Zed Yago, Sander and some other people.

Things will be different in our own database. When all this is finished we will take a look into it and help you moderators out to get our stuff here properly organized according to your rules. Until then, please leave it in order to stop confusion or PM us if you have any questions and leave all this drama queenarios out. It does not do anything good.

/Eddie

2007-10-29 19:25

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

Most of the stuff that have been uploaded here have been in one way or another released before hand. The majority of the music stuff I am uploading here for the moment on a regular basis have been released before hand to such people as for instance the WD-people, Kjell Nordbo, Jucke, Deekay, Zed Yago, Sander and some other people.

again that doesnt matter. "release" here means "spread in public".

2007-10-29 23:07

ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409

How public is public?

The orientation-day demo I wrote for the UCC in 1991 was shown to several hundred people, but was never posted to any euro groups for spreading..

2007-10-30 08:16

Radiant

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 639

I'd say if you want only certain people to be able to get hold of your production, it was not released. If you just show it to them and don't give it away, it was certainly not released. In the former case, it's more of an internal release, and CSDb does not document those.

2007-10-30 08:53

Ed

Registered: May 2004
Posts: 173

All you have to do is PM me. The stuff is there on dvd and anyone interested may have a copy.

2007-10-31 02:27

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Quote:

I'd say if you want only certain people to be able to get hold of your production, it was not released. If you just show it to them and don't give it away, it was certainly not released. In the former case, it's more of an internal release, and CSDb does not document those.

amen

2007-10-31 10:41

stash
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 343

@groepaz: that still dont explains why u go and alter information on the group page, does it

2007-10-31 20:44

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

stash: i did not alter the group page at all, i fixed the misnamed handles. you too please understand how csdb works :) also try talking to your groupmates every now and then :=P

2007-10-31 20:56

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

and just so i dont forget....

Quote:

How public is public?

The orientation-day demo I wrote for the UCC in 1991 was shown to several hundred people, but was never posted to any euro groups for spreading..

if it only was shown to people without giving an actual copy to anyone, then it wasnt released. released means that the files are "out there" for the general public.

2007-10-31 22:51

stash
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 343

Quote: stash: i did not alter the group page at all, i fixed the misnamed handles. you too please understand how csdb works :) also try talking to your groupmates every now and then :=P

i did that is why i ask u why... :)

2007-11-01 03:12

ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1409

released means that the files are "out there" for the general public.

Hmm. I probably gave a copy to a few friends at the time, but they probably didn't have any connections. The file has been online since sometime in the mid 90s. It certainly wasn't being deliberately withheld.

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