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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Rambo First Blood Part II containing Galway editor.
"If anyone has the original C64 Rambo game, load, reset, SYS 49192 to see Martin Galway's music editor. Should it be there? No. Is it there, yes. Why? I left it in...."
Got this comment from S W Dunlewy at C64.sk Facebook page. Can anyone confirm? It's new information for me ;-) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
tried with "Rambo (First Blood Part II)" g64 (Thundermountain Version) and it just crashes when doing that. It seems unlikely too, such editor would typically use up quite some memory :)
edit: the PAL g64 i have doesnt work, maybe its in there? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4621 |
Quote: tried with "Rambo (First Blood Part II)" g64 (Thundermountain Version) and it just crashes when doing that. It seems unlikely too, such editor would typically use up quite some memory :)
edit: the PAL g64 i have doesnt work, maybe its in there?
Or the TAP:s? https://www.dropbox.com/s/9amqhb4rlgayhjn/003674_Rambo%20First%.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
same crash :) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
It's game code, and there was no Galway editor. There would not be enough free memory to hold a complete editor even if there was one. He used an assembler and source files, and around the time of Rambo I think he was using a C128D. So I call bullshit on this. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Quote: Or the TAP:s? https://www.dropbox.com/s/9amqhb4rlgayhjn/003674_Rambo%20First%..
Deleted. Was it a tap of original? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
yes, same code at that location as in the thundermountain g64 |
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Silver Dream !
Registered: Nov 2005
Posts: 108 |
A very long shot - how about checking original tape version that (probably, I surely don't remember) loads some stuff (title screen / music / ..) *before* loading the actual game? Maybe there are some remnants in that first part? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Quote: yes, same code at that location as in the thundermountain g64
ty |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4621 |
Quote: Deleted. Was it a tap of original?
Yeah. Sorry. I deleted it after Groepaz checked it. Here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7f5pce39zviasgg/003674_Rambo%20First%.. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Thank you. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
If anything, i'd expect that kind of thing in the loading picture + music code (like Silver Dream suggested), which only exists in the tape version. In addition to Zyron's point, that kind of thing would needlessly increase loading times and tape footage. (Didn't find anything suspicious in the TAP of the original.)
But who is "S W Dunlewy", anyways? The game was programmed by "Tony, Dave, Bill, Martin" as stated in the hi-scores. These are probably Tony Pomfret, David Collier, Bill Barna and Martin Galway (according to the morse code in the loading tune). |
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algorithm
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 702 |
Sean Dunlevy is mainly a Gameboy Advance Guy (He is in constant contact with me) posting stuff even on my FB profile page quite often. (ADPCM info etc) He did claim to have coded Tetris on the C64 way back in the 80's.. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Suspicious. =) Also "SYS 49192" (rather than 49152) isn't quite "standard". |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Quote: Sean Dunlevy is mainly a Gameboy Advance Guy (He is in constant contact with me) posting stuff even on my FB profile page quite often. (ADPCM info etc) He did claim to have coded Tetris on the C64 way back in the 80's..
This is probably him.
https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,6842..
This is what he said"
" Yes - I'm from Manchester so I saw a lot of Ocean. I just told the coder that he should just 'save all RAM over $0400.... and he did.
BUT the best find at Ocean was - I stole a devkt, Their C64 devkit was a C128... and I used it.
It's odd that people who wern't there finding it intersting..... we lived BIG poverty for years, just to get a job.
BTW look up mu nme. I coded a lot."
This or that seems like Galway's editor didn't get to the final "press". |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Quote:there was no Galway editor |
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Scarzix
Registered: Aug 2010
Posts: 143 |
"S W Dunlewy"
"Sean Dunlevy"
- or whatever his name is. To me, he sounds like someone is having fun getting attention on spreading false information.
As far as I know, Galway never had an "editor" as such. He composed on other platforms and then he and the coders spend time translating his notes into something that could play on the C64. Thats, as far as I have been told. I am sure a lot of SID musicians can tell the story in more details than me. |
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Wile Coyote
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646 |
On a Rambo/Ocean side note.. many moons ago i was out shopping on a Saturday, on Portobello Road, market, which i did most Saturdays, as it was an excuse to drink, eat street food, and pick up bootleg music tapes (this was pre_internet era times) along with some vinyl music. Among the stuff for sale, i spotted a cassette, with a white and blue Ocean label on it, written in ink, was the word Rambo. It picked it up, if only to discover what was on the tape? could it be the whole game? ..on returning home i tried it on my C64 and no luck. I tried it on my ZX Spectrum and bingo! it was not the game, but a screen shot of how the game looked in game. I can only assume it was something Ocean sent out to magazines to use. How it came to be in the hands of a market seller remains mystery?
Sadly, i do not own the tape anymore. I am always loosing stuff when moving house. Believe it or not, i managed to loose a Commodore monitor on one occasion.. |
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Angel of Death
Registered: Apr 2008
Posts: 210 |
Slayradio DJ and allround retro remix pioneer Alistair Bowness had Martin Galway's c64 donated to him by the man himself and together with c64Audio.com made the "Project Galway" album with recordings from the actual c64 that these tunes were made on.
In the liner notes he explained that Martin's disks only contained sources in various assembler formats, LaserGenius, to name one, and that he had to put in quite some effort to piece them together to be ready for recording as they were cut up and rearranged to fit the various productions they were to be used in.
All of this is not surprising anyway because Mr. Galway was a programmer at Ocean first. And anyone that ever took a look at his music routines saw that they are all different. Not quite the thing you expect if he would have used some editor.
Hence, there is NO Galway editor that was used back in the days at Ocean by Martin Galway. |
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deetsay
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 38 |
Quote: Slayradio DJ and allround retro remix pioneer Alistair Bowness had Martin Galway's c64 donated to him by the man himself and together with c64Audio.com made the "Project Galway" album with recordings from the actual c64 that these tunes were made on.
In the liner notes he explained that Martin's disks only contained sources in various assembler formats, LaserGenius, to name one, and that he had to put in quite some effort to piece them together to be ready for recording as they were cut up and rearranged to fit the various productions they were to be used in.
All of this is not surprising anyway because Mr. Galway was a programmer at Ocean first. And anyone that ever took a look at his music routines saw that they are all different. Not quite the thing you expect if he would have used some editor.
Hence, there is NO Galway editor that was used back in the days at Ocean by Martin Galway.
The idea that some extra code was accidentally left in doesn't sound very far-fetched though... Especially since Galway was coding the player, it would make sense that there's at least an entry point that he would use while doing it, that would just play the music and maybe print something on screen. And that kind of thing would be a lot more likely to be left in, rather than a full-fledged music editor, wouldn't it? |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
Fragments (of whatever) are definetely more likely indeed that fully working editor (which has been proven wrong already). But finding fragments (of whatever) which no one can use for nothing in some game's RAM, is not uncommon at all and ain't 1% as sensational than rumours the dude on C64.sk spread. |
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Inge
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 144 |
Quote: Slayradio DJ and allround retro remix pioneer Alistair Bowness had Martin Galway's c64 donated to him by the man himself and together with c64Audio.com made the "Project Galway" album with recordings from the actual c64 that these tunes were made on.
In the liner notes he explained that Martin's disks only contained sources in various assembler formats, LaserGenius, to name one, and that he had to put in quite some effort to piece them together to be ready for recording as they were cut up and rearranged to fit the various productions they were to be used in.
All of this is not surprising anyway because Mr. Galway was a programmer at Ocean first. And anyone that ever took a look at his music routines saw that they are all different. Not quite the thing you expect if he would have used some editor.
Hence, there is NO Galway editor that was used back in the days at Ocean by Martin Galway.
Having collaborated with Chris Abbott trying to recover some of Martin Galway's unreleased tunes (like the Arkanoid title tune with real drums), I can indeed confirm that there is no Galway Editor.
Martin Galway programmed all his tunes in assembler, and if you look really close, you'll find that the player is slightly different from game to game. The reason for this is that a) he continuously developed his player and b) he left out subroutines (like filter and arpeggio) he didn't use in the tunes to make the player code somewhat shorter. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Quote:Especially since Galway was coding the player, it would make sense that there's at least an entry point that he would use while doing it, that would just play the music and maybe print something on screen.
why would you have something like this in the game? makes no sense to me at all. |
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deetsay
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 38 |
Quote: Quote:Especially since Galway was coding the player, it would make sense that there's at least an entry point that he would use while doing it, that would just play the music and maybe print something on screen.
why would you have something like this in the game? makes no sense to me at all.
Why? He left it in... |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Oh now i see what you mean. Ok. still seems unlikely to me - taking care of removing unused arpeggio routines and then leave in a totally useless "player" :) |
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Inge
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 144 |
Remember that while today's players have one codebase for all three channels, Galway used separate routines for each channel.
A typical IRQ-call thus looks like this:
JSR MUSIC0
JSR SOUND0
JSR MUSIC1
JSR SOUND1
JSR MUSIC2
JSR SOUND2
If your music never uses arpeggio on channel 1 and 2 it makes sense to remove it from the player. As long as the player plays the tunes as intended, you just can't call it "useless". |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Not sure what you refer to now - i was referring to that entry point which plays the tune and shows values on screen for debugging. That one is surely useless inside the game :) |
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Inge
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 144 |
Oh, sorry, I just misinterpreted what you meant. Yes, you're absolutely right about that. |
