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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
where are my comments perff?
this is incredibly lame. until now i thought readding a release in order to get rid of unwanted opinions is lame, but having them silently removed by the admin, without even noticing anyone, beats that by a large extend.
please tell me how i can be sure that noone messes with my entries and forum posts (and further comments), since i have no intention of further supporting a database where you can't be sure of exactly that.
bah. kids. grow some balls, mom can't take care of you forever. |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
Were you being mean?
-Ninj |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
Isn't it allowed to be mean?
No, let us all be friends and only give possitive comments to some of the worst crap ever released on the Commodore 64. THAT's the way it should be.
Greetings to Wanderer. You're the best!
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1154 |
Lemon rules to CSDB too - including that you shall not post anything anti-CSDB :) |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
Quote: Isn't it allowed to be mean?
No, let us all be friends and only give possitive comments to some of the worst crap ever released on the Commodore 64. THAT's the way it should be.
Greetings to Wanderer. You're the best!
Friendly, if not cordial, would be nice.
Criticism is merely venom if said incorrectly.
Mean isn't healthy. Look at the brighter sides and be well.
-Ninj |
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SECRET MAN
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 336 |
Quote: Friendly, if not cordial, would be nice.
Criticism is merely venom if said incorrectly.
Mean isn't healthy. Look at the brighter sides and be well.
-Ninj
I agree. |
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TWR
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 187 |
Indeed.
Peace-offering sent by pm. :-) |
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SECRET MAN
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 336 |
.....or TWR will kiss Groepaz in the dark corner of X-2006
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
First of all. There is one important thing about someone's websites, magazines, privately owned companies and so called "capitalism" in general ;-) If it's theirs, it goes by theirs rules.
There are better and worse ways of handling good relations with your visitors. In general, there is always someone who will be complaining, commenting you, explaining you, mocking you up, insulting you, despising you. On the other hand there is chance that someone will be praising you, suporting you, loving you, but what's most important - understanding you ;-) (Hi Hollowman ;-)
Groepaz, you have to consider what's going on there. There is a lot of mess on this page lately and Perff has to take some steps to get over it. Not always it's sweet solution, but it wasn't meant badly. Actually I don't think it was good idea to listen to Trazan, but if there should be someone to blame, it should be Trazan for requesting that action.
The worst thing you would do now is to be upset about Perff trying to handle this situation by deleting of de-facto offtopic comments (I think that he should have deleted more of them though ;-). He has spent a lot of his work time trying to develop CSDB security and improve protection towards nasty actions. He tries to get the situation under control. Contacting him and trying to resolve this privately would be IMO much bettter solution.
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
I did ask for moderation, not deletion :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
Quote:.....or TWR will kiss Groepaz in the dark corner of X-2006
if it only would stop with kissing *grin* |
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Sixx
Registered: May 2005
Posts: 229 |
First of all, hail Perff for everything he's done.
What i don't understand is why raggin' should be left out of the CSDb? I belive there is a reason for these nasty comments, like Crypt's sudden co-op with the mentaly sick Wanderer for example. If someone is offended why don't they stand up for themselfs and try to understand WHY they get those comments? It's not like mr.avarage scener get's those comments on his products, right? Some people should get their act together and stop beeing so good damn lame. Hurm. =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
i second that.
and i still demand a public edit history for all entries :) |
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Jon
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247 |
Quote: First of all, hail Perff for everything he's done.
What i don't understand is why raggin' should be left out of the CSDb? I belive there is a reason for these nasty comments, like Crypt's sudden co-op with the mentaly sick Wanderer for example. If someone is offended why don't they stand up for themselfs and try to understand WHY they get those comments? It's not like mr.avarage scener get's those comments on his products, right? Some people should get their act together and stop beeing so good damn lame. Hurm. =)
Quick answer:
Because we aren't teenagers anymore.
Long answer:
We are members of a very small scene with a niche userbase that create things on a 25 year old computer.
Watching this Wanderer / Crypt drama is like watching a boxing match in a small closet.
The entire Wanderer crap has been going on for well over a year (at least since I joined the CSdB) and it has been cumbersome for the last eight months. He has been beaten back to his own corner of the Web, and still the attacks continue relentlessly.
A serious scene would have dismissed any agitator as a troll and ignored him or her. For some reason, that has not been the case here. I'm not sure why, exactly, and nor do I care. I have dismissed the entire episode as "needless scene drama" and minded my own business. But recently, the DB has been defiled (deleted entries, anonymous sabotage, etc.) due to this nonsense. It's time to just let it go.
There is little in this scene to keep it from becoming an insulated clique. I'd just like this whole nonsense to go away so we may do something constructive around here for a change.
Don't like a release? Constructive criticism, not damning words, would be nice.
Don't like a group or scener? Who cares?
Let the scene breathe for a moment.
-Ninj |
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Thunder.Bird
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 109 |
...and please, don't forget to vote, even if it's hard to vote with "3" |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
i'll give you a 10 for "public relations" =) |
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The Ignorance
Registered: Apr 2006
Posts: 85 |
Still didn´t see a sense in tolerating recracking, freezing
and releasing pure crap.
Now we are back at the "BETTER RELEASE UTTER CRAP THAN NOTHING"-topic to repeat each day: THIS SCENE IS STILL ALIVE!
And secondly why do I have to tolerate such releases on a so-called SCENE-database? There were unwritten rules since the
80ies and so the breaking of them is cool in 2006? WOW!
Close this "SCENE"... |
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SECRET MAN
Account closed
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 336 |
Quote: Quick answer:
Because we aren't teenagers anymore.
Long answer:
We are members of a very small scene with a niche userbase that create things on a 25 year old computer.
Watching this Wanderer / Crypt drama is like watching a boxing match in a small closet.
The entire Wanderer crap has been going on for well over a year (at least since I joined the CSdB) and it has been cumbersome for the last eight months. He has been beaten back to his own corner of the Web, and still the attacks continue relentlessly.
A serious scene would have dismissed any agitator as a troll and ignored him or her. For some reason, that has not been the case here. I'm not sure why, exactly, and nor do I care. I have dismissed the entire episode as "needless scene drama" and minded my own business. But recently, the DB has been defiled (deleted entries, anonymous sabotage, etc.) due to this nonsense. It's time to just let it go.
There is little in this scene to keep it from becoming an insulated clique. I'd just like this whole nonsense to go away so we may do something constructive around here for a change.
Don't like a release? Constructive criticism, not damning words, would be nice.
Don't like a group or scener? Who cares?
Let the scene breathe for a moment.
-Ninj
I agree. |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 595 |
why don't we all just shake hands?
and have plenty of beers and kilos of weed 8)
nah all I mean is groepaz I understand you're upset about this but I think there's little to blame perff for. without asslicking I think he's a fecking great administrator and I sure think most of us think the same about him. so I wasn't really kidding about the "shake hands" thingie.
what do you think?
eh I was serious about the weed and the booze too I'm affraid 8)
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
and i won't shake hands with everybody, even if i'd get some kilos of weed =) |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
Havn't read the entire thread, but I guess this refers to me going crasy on the delete botton for comments.
Well. I saw that there was 20+ comments on a release, where almost none of them were related to the release itself, but more or less was a discussion about how lame WDR is or something similar.
Being tired seing discussion and "you suck" like personal attacks in the user commentss instead of simple "I think ... about this release", so I went a little crazy.
Night.. zzZZzz |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
\o/
go wild!! woohoooo! |
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Matt
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 595 |
Quote: and i won't shake hands with everybody, even if i'd get some kilos of weed =)
damn
and I really thought that was an offer you couldn't refuse.
man I'm getting old 8) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
you know, there would be ways to steal that weed without shaking hands at all =) |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Thumbs up for Perff!
This place has been in need of some serious moderation for quite some time now & several people have been asking for it.
Stop complaining when you finally get what you asked for.
This is a giant step in the right direction. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
as trazan already pointed out, moderation != silent deletion. people should be informed that, and why they have been moderated. silent deletion equals manipulating information behind someones back, and that sucks. (notice that i'm not disagreeing that the actual comments we are talking about were lame and maybe even should have been deleted)
and i still think a public edit history is a good idea, i'd like to know who messes with the entries i create atleast =) |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
Wouldn't it simply be easier to forward such things to a secluded area in the forums?
"Scenewise" speaking ones mind and even badmouthing and wars in general have been a large part of our past. Be it in notes/intros/demos/boards/etc.
Even though our community is not that tremendously large these days it feels somewhat awkward having the feeling that there is no outlet for frustration in a gathering place such as the csdb.
Just comparing to bbs of the old days (and yes sometimes the csdb compares to a modern bbs better then other times) callers were urged to keep such things confined to separate areas and thus not polluting the system with 20 or more posts that others might find annoying.
On the other hand it had a great function besides keeping structure and important areas clean of pollution: It created mini battle arenas for some good old juvenile fun ;) And.. these were also popular corners of a board with only the audience that actually was interested in reading/reacting.
Hell we are all no longer kids, true.. yet looking at my personal views, I have to admit that I enjoyed following and participating in such things. I am stubborn, also have a fairly oversized mind for justice and to follow and or stand up for unwritten rules too (well, who knew I would ever agree on anything with Ignorance) so I think it would be a perfect addition to this system and a win/win situation for all.
Comparing the above to modern days.. you could simply request people to move their irritations.. to take the fight outside as a good barkeeper would do.. It is also an ancient unwritten rule to always respect a good sysops wishes providing there is a place to go.
That should result to only a few negative feedbacks in any release before users would themselves move it, or otherwise be urged to do so.
Any possibilities for something like that?
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
Actually, inspired by the forum thread BITCHING TOPIC, to make a dedicated forum room for people to bitch, argue and whatever nasty stuff they can think of in.
It could then perhaps be followed by a user setting to disable this room when you view CSDb, which means new posts in this room dosn't show up on the frontpage, and that the room is not visible when entering the forum, etcetc.
Good or bad idea? |
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Tim
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 467 |
checked that, not a bad idea if you would allow people to refer to that area in a comment.
Example could be something as such:
What a pathetic excuse for a crack further comment and other reactions can be found in click here- to prevent csdb database pollution
Although I would urge the option for users to be able to create new threads. Having them all fit into one single bitching topic might end in people not able to find the applicable comment and re-start polluting again. (for instance if 3 different raggings occur at the same time.)
I personally am impartial to (not) showing new posts in the frontpage.. maybe you might not want to draw too much attention to it, however it certainly cant hurt to point out that such an area would exist.
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
i think much of the problem lies in the fact that the page of every entry is designed in a way that its much easier to find the "comment" link at the bottom than the "discuss this release" on the right. instead both should be next to each other (with a short description of what kinda stuff goes where) and a link to the "discussion" (or call it "bitching" if you want =D) should appear next to the "comments", "trivia" etc links on the right.
and yes a good old ragging sub would probably also do the trick to keep the rest of the forum clean.
and i still demand a public edit history (should make that my sig =)) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
I agree, bitching should be kept out of the release comments.
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Wow.
Another one of those LONG threads. Good.
What I did trigger upon was the fact, as given to reason to perff to moderate; Far to many comments in a thread thats not about the release itself, but things totally offtopic.
If the release crasches when you press F5, got a spritebug or whatever - point that out. Why go trolling for more?
Is that not better done in a release of your own?
I would love to read scrollers about person X being so lame, see a Anti-intro or whatever like back in the days.
Go nuts ragging there instead of using these threads, even if its SO easy to hit reply and go Bananas. Let the releases speak :)
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
trazan, with 6 releases alltogether (credited for text of 3 of them) how laughable you are for telling ppl to be active ? |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Quote: trazan, with 6 releases alltogether (credited for text of 3 of them) how laughable you are for telling ppl to be active ?
And yet you, Oswald, tell people how to do graphics :P
Turrican Tribute |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
The plan about what I sugested, if it indeed is a good idea which I'm not sure of yet, is that I will create a new forum-room like we have "CSDb Discussions", "C64 Coding", "CSDb Feedback" and whatever the rest of the rooms are called, where people can start all the threads they want about whatever they want without any kind of censoring or anything, and be able to link to these threads using the <forum id=xx> as you can all other threads.
The additional idea was to make a user-setting disabling this room completly from CSDb for those who dosn't want to be a part of it, and thus being able to surf CSDb without constantly finding comments etc. saying nasty things about people. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
jox, not being a bricklayer you can tell if a wall is not straight enough, can you ? |
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Trazan
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 620 |
Oswald; Im not a part of the scene and have not been since the boards, releases and race for points faded away back in 97?.
I release for the fun of it when not working with C64.com.
Please notice the smileys I used in previous post.
Laughable or not, Im still around.... |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Quote: jox, not being a bricklayer you can tell if a wall is not straight enough, can you ?
You have the right to air your opinion on graphics, even though you don't contribute graphics.
Trazan has the right to air his opinion on the release flux, even though he doesn't contribute to the release flux himself.
Oswald: PM |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
 |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
I don't think the hand looks realistic. |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
I bet it's wired.
And it flickers.
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
Back on topic!!???!?!?!? |
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Quote: Back on topic!!???!?!?!?
NEVER! Muuahahahahahaaa
<ahem>
I mean: Sir, yes sir!
:) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: Back on topic!!???!?!?!?
Okay, here's an opinion; the odds of a specific "war" sub on the message board working are pretty low, what's the point in flaming someone if they've got that part of the board set to hidden? |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
Perhaps you're right. In general I think the answer to personal discussions must be PM's. Afaik there is PM-buttons or *'s (* = short PM-buttons) anywhere where peopls can post something (except onliners). Use those instead of replying in comments or even forum-threads if what you want to say is personal.
(okok.. adding *'s at user comments now..) |
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Personally, i don't want to see too much moderation about these parts, the scene was (for me at least) somewhere i, regardless of if i actually meant it, could call someone a cocksucker and not worry about A) offending sensibilities (since we are, as has been pointed, no longer teenagers) or B) being moderated, filtered or censored. i don't subscribe to the "friendly scene" bullshit, tried it and had people taking the piss in various ways so stuff that for a game of urban mercenaries.
G's idea of moving the "discuss this release" down by the "comment" button is a good one to my mind, by the way, and as for the *'s, any chance of changing them to [PM] or similar to make it a bit more intuitive? Took me five minutes to remember how to do it last time i sent a PM! =-) |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1666 |
Done, done and done.
Edit: Mostly.. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11148 |
Quote:Personally, i don't want to see too much moderation about these parts, the scene was (for me at least) somewhere i, regardless of if i actually meant it, could call someone a cocksucker and not worry about A) offending sensibilities (since we are, as has been pointed, no longer teenagers) or B) being moderated, filtered or censored. i don't subscribe to the "friendly scene" bullshit, tried it and had people taking the piss in various ways so stuff that for a game of urban mercenaries.
i second that |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
I agree too.
either we live with flamings, etc
or we live with dicaturistic rules. |
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Tch
Account closed
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 512 |
Some flamings have been great stuff for reading,they almost deserve publishing. ;) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: Some flamings have been great stuff for reading,they almost deserve publishing. ;)
It extended my vocabulary in some way...
---
8Bit Mayhem - The C64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.untergrund.net |
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Quote: It extended my vocabulary in some way...
---
8Bit Mayhem - The C64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.untergrund.net
Like the word 'dicaturistic'? |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1568 |
Quote: Like the word 'dicaturistic'?
Yes, I saw that come by.
That's gonna be the name of my next demo.
Dicaturistic.... yes..has a nice ring to it.
Dunno what it means but hell, the word 'graphician' is also accepted.
---
8Bit Mayhem - The C64 Scenemusic Podcast
http://8bitmayhem.untergrund.net |
