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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
timbalamer
this is so yesterdays news, but how the hell is it possible nobody cared to open a thread about this here?
everyone else did!
http://www.pelulamu.net/timbaland/
The Tempest track is here -> http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/tempest_acidjazz.mp3
The GRG C64 version is here -> http://www.c64.org/HVSC/VARIOUS/A-F/Blues_Muz/Gallefoss_Glenn/A..
The Furtado track is here -> http://www.limpninja.com/acidjazz/furtado_doit.mp3
You can also see a Youtube video comparing the tracks here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4KX7SkDe4Q |
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Higgie
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 116 |
comments on the case by tempest himself: http://www.fairlight.fi/tempest/ |
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tlr
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 1787 |
So is Tempest and GRG going to be paid royalties by Geffen now?
I think they should try contacting the EFF for legal help.
They would probably take on a case like this "pro bono".
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
I'm adding Nelly Furtado's album to CSDB as a release then, I guess. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
tempest and grg are obviously not gonna sit here and do nothing about it. I'd say best would be if they settle this out of court and get a nice amount of $$ from timbalamer.
edit: lol @ dane! ;) |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
Quote: comments on the case by tempest himself: http://www.fairlight.fi/tempest/
wow, amazing stuff. He claims he wrote the song, which we all knew anyway.
Nothing like a fresh perspective on a situation :) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Ok added GRG's tune and info about it.
AcidJazz Evening (cover) |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Sounds like they mixed in the arpeggio from the Tempest tune in the "Do It" song.
Oh shit.. I just put on my headphones (was listening to it through my laptop speakers) and suddenly the whole song shows up in the mix... WTF?.. It really seems to be the GRG version in the key of the original Tempest song (B flat minor).
For a moment there I couldn't see what the fuzz was about, but man.. this is BAD FORM from the Furtado producers.
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Dane: Gwahahaha, yuo just saved my day! What interesting is that this affair has put some real issues to light! Peoples around the net has a scary way of look upon copyrightlaws. Every hiphop lamer thinks that as long as a sampler has being involved you can steal whatever you want! Whats funny is that Timbaland manage to cross my favourite genre with my alltime hate genre.
/Icon |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
afterall instead of being angry, I'm proud that the scene I'm part of is capable to produce material thats worth to ripp off :) Its also interesting to note that timbaland has a sort of sidcard ;) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 461 |
icon bwoy, 'do it' is not a rap song
i'm actually amazed that so many people liked it whilst laughing at the original sid sound. it must be a matter of vocals' presence |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Quote: afterall instead of being angry, I'm proud that the scene I'm part of is capable to produce material thats worth to ripp off :) Its also interesting to note that timbaland has a sort of sidcard ;)
It's still an awfully lame behaviour to sample a tune like that & take all the credit for it. I've noticed though that this story is spreading rapidly across the net so even if Tempets won't get a single penny for his effort at least Timbaland's reputation might get Damaged. At least I hope so. |
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stash
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 343 |
any one got tempest´s email adress??
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Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
ah so what it comes down to is that a part of the scene has envy on the simple fact that timbaland makes money by ripping of a scene artist?
And do we suddenly forget that the scene has been ripping of artists since the beginning of that scene and never paid a single penny for that.
Did Bastian paid Jeroen Tel money for using some of Jeroen's sounds in his tracks? You've got my love has a sample of Rubicon dual speed if my ears don't deceive me.
Or should we all form a lynch mob and kill the borrowing/stealing bastards with a spoon (cause it will hurt more) just for the sake of well revenge for someone who wishes not to defend himself?
Should we declare war on the entire dance/hiphop world, because they to sample parts of music. And yes i heard some sid sample's and melody line's in various tunes too.
Come on people. get real and get a life. Stop pretending to be holier then the pope and the Dalai lama together.
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Jayce... i think you're completely missing the point here.
(and yes, Bastian did pay in the end.) |
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Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
So elaborate me, what's the real point i seem besides a principal thing i seem to miss?
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
What Sander said.
Furthermore I want do add that Jayce's comment belongs to a comment thread in YouTube or a Timbaland fan-forum. |
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the_JinX
Account closed
Registered: May 2006
Posts: 31 |
Using a bits and pieces and samples is one thing..
Ripping a tune in it's entirety is something different.
Not asking permission for use and selling it as your own work (as Timbaland did) is plain illegal.
I'd also like to point to the Remix64 thread about this.
http://www.remix64.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=4157 |
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Jayce
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 39 |
Quote: What Sander said.
Furthermore I want do add that Jayce's comment belongs to a comment thread in YouTube or a Timbaland fan-forum.
Why because i question the motivation of the collaborated anger/frustration or was this discussion only meant to shed light on one side of this story?
Common, ripping tunes is older then the road to Methusalem and yet now i strikes a fellow scener we should start a riot?
Ofcourse it's death wrong of Timbaland to rip a song without giving proper credits or a payment, no doubt about that!
Yet i seriously doubt that this is a single incident, it just got more attention then other cases.
Just check this site : http://www.originals.be/eng/main.cfm and be amazed of how many artists get their inspiration some where else :) No sceners to be found in the database, but perhaps someone should notify the author of that website.
(and for the dutch people, try to get a hold of the book Grijsgedraaid by Leo Blokhuis, it's filled with facts and stories about borrowed tunes)
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T.M.R
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 749 |
Quote: So elaborate me, what's the real point i seem besides a principal thing i seem to miss?
The attitiude is different; yup, the scene has ripped people off and, whilst in a few cases which i'd argue weren't sceners anyway, money was made for cracked software in some form, the majority of us pretty much used to do it for free. The same is true for demos that stole graphics, code or music from games, the releases themselves were seen as "liberating" the data, making it available for free.
If that seems too holier than thou (and i can see how it would, although i don't feel that way personally) there is also the issue of credit; when a demo uses a soundtrack by Rob Hubbard or a picture by Bob Stevenson, even if that data was ripped and then used without any kind of permission, the original artist is usually credited for his work either in the demo itself or simply by the fact that everyone viewing it knows whose work it is. Timbaland has done the equivalent of ripping the Crazy Comets tune, sticking it in a demo and saying "i made this".
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
For the german speakers (pun intended), here's another article about it on the well reputed IT news site from the Heise Verlag:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/83835 |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: afterall instead of being angry, I'm proud that the scene I'm part of is capable to produce material thats worth to ripp off :) Its also interesting to note that timbaland has a sort of sidcard ;)
totally agree. oh and btw, the sidstation was already identified by many, in a prominent place in his studio.
and jayce, its all about commercial vs non-commercial, creditting the creator vs ripping and calling it your own.
its the same reason why people like wanderer, moskwa tv and crossfire got slated in our precious scene. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
I think it is quite hypocrit of the crackers in this thread to suddenly act like good citizens. I understand the difference between commercially ripping off, and ripping for amateur pleasure, still, crackers are helping themselves only, not the producers of the games, nor the developers (if they get any royalties at all, ofcourse), and it's not that they give credit to the original authors that often. I think if Tempest decides to sue, he may consider the fact he is part of a cracking scene doesn't make his case stronger. It is wise of him to elaborate so little on his page about this matter. I personally would think twice before sueing, and most certainly try to keep the gossip as small as possible.
If it is about artistic credits, and not about the money, heck, beat him up. |
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Thunder.Bird
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 109 |
Cool link, Steppe! Very interesting usercomments and some very (!) usefull links in the comments, as well!! :-)
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/go.shtml?read=1&msg_id=119..
I just ordered the Album "Audion" from Synergy. The Song "Shibolet" was an intention for Rob Hubbard's masterpiece "Master of Magic". You see, this way it had been allright.
In my opinion, Timbaland should at least pay a huge amount of C64 Hardware to GRG ...or something like that ;) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Quote:I think it is quite hypocrit of the crackers in this thread to suddenly act like good citizens.
This might be a bit out of context as (real) cracking is all about reverse enginering and techno-anarchism ("data must be free!") and not about ripping and stealing others code/graphics and making money with that.
But please continue... |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Now thats a typical cracker attitude, luring me out of my tent, eh??
'Data must be free'... pffff.. right, if the developer of a game thinks the same, he would have mentioned that, wouldn't he? I don't think that oneliner is the motivation for cracking. It's purely pleasure, beating the protection, and as you mentioned, reverse engineering, solving a puzzle. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Quote: I think it is quite hypocrit of the crackers in this thread to suddenly act like good citizens. I understand the difference between commercially ripping off, and ripping for amateur pleasure, still, crackers are helping themselves only, not the producers of the games, nor the developers (if they get any royalties at all, ofcourse), and it's not that they give credit to the original authors that often. I think if Tempest decides to sue, he may consider the fact he is part of a cracking scene doesn't make his case stronger. It is wise of him to elaborate so little on his page about this matter. I personally would think twice before sueing, and most certainly try to keep the gossip as small as possible.
If it is about artistic credits, and not about the money, heck, beat him up.
ARE YOU CALLING ME A HYPOCRIT?!?
hell, I am! ;) |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
csdb eated my original huge post quoting lots of examples of this, instead i just want to say the polite thing to do in the music biz is to at least have their name in the tune. ie: Kenny "dope" Gonzales presents The BucketHeads - The Bomb .. David Morales presents The Face - Needin' You.
I only found out who this wimp was tonight, I thought timberland made shoes. i'm up for a drive by as long as the Outrun theme is playing. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: I think it is quite hypocrit of the crackers in this thread to suddenly act like good citizens. I understand the difference between commercially ripping off, and ripping for amateur pleasure, still, crackers are helping themselves only, not the producers of the games, nor the developers (if they get any royalties at all, ofcourse), and it's not that they give credit to the original authors that often. I think if Tempest decides to sue, he may consider the fact he is part of a cracking scene doesn't make his case stronger. It is wise of him to elaborate so little on his page about this matter. I personally would think twice before sueing, and most certainly try to keep the gossip as small as possible.
If it is about artistic credits, and not about the money, heck, beat him up.
Hein I respect you as a musician but I don't agree with your points. IMO, Tempest should GET all the credit for the tune and financial compenstation for rip off of his melody etc. And GRG should get the credit financial compensation for unauthorised usage of part (if not complete) of his SID arrangement of AcidJazz Evening in Timnbalands commercial track for Nelly Furtado. Tempest and GRG never did this for money but their intelectual property was stolen. Let's leave the "cracking scene" alone. Composing music is legal and both authors did it for legal releases. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Quote: Hein I respect you as a musician but I don't agree with your points. IMO, Tempest should GET all the credit for the tune and financial compenstation for rip off of his melody etc. And GRG should get the credit financial compensation for unauthorised usage of part (if not complete) of his SID arrangement of AcidJazz Evening in Timnbalands commercial track for Nelly Furtado. Tempest and GRG never did this for money but their intelectual property was stolen. Let's leave the "cracking scene" alone. Composing music is legal and both authors did it for legal releases.
The best way to describe this would be to use the history of the amen break as an example. In 1969, while we were all drawing stick figures in dirt and putting rocks where the boobies would go, a group called the Winstons made a song on the flipside of a record with a pretty neat drum solo.
The drum beat was cool and was sampled by a few dudes and made famous in the tune Straight Outta Compton by nwa. It also spawned a few genres of music, well tecknoes, which is like music but differents.
Drummer dude never got any royalties from this, or any of the tens of thousands of tunes resulting in the underground Jungle scene. Eventually, he was was approached and didn't care and yet was happy so many people enjoyed what he had made.
What makes it so much more fun, is that a company in England owns the rights to this bassline, albiet pitched up in speed.
There was plenty of cases in 1991/2 of people getting away with pitching up house music vocals to sound like chipmunks, cases were thrown out of court. People will always do this because they lack the various talent to something as minute as c-5,.. c-5, e-5, c-5,.. to a dull sound. It's wrong but hell everyone does it. Never loaded up someone elses tune and loaded or changed a wavetable? :)
I still have dozens of cases in my zombie brain of stuff like this, but that's another story for another time. |
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Style
Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 498 |
/me fires up the ferrari and pops the Outrun soundtrack CD into the stereo...
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
fade: To ripp a drumbeat or a some chords or harmonys is ok and kosher, but this isnt the case. Timbaland just sample THE WHOLE SONG (- bass+drums), put his own bass+drums on it and whola two new songs (blockparty and Do it), thats my friend is NOT sampling, inspire, influenced its not even plagiarism, its simply bootlegging, stealing or theft... |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
CreamD, I respect you as a person, but not as a journalist. :)
I'm not saying he shouldn't be compensated, am I? I drag the crackscene into this, because we're all part of it. We all played/cracked games. This will be mentioned if Timbalake is smart enough to find out. It is a shameless rip-off, then again, this is the world we live in.
Besides, speaking of credits, can't remember Tempest gave credit to the original painter of his Disco demo picture. (The girl in white dress).
At least Burglar doesn't care he's a hypocrit, coz we all are over here. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
I bet timbaland never ever played cracked games :P anyway, putting your name on something you havent done is so awfully wrong, that I cant imagine a situation where I'd do that! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: CreamD, I respect you as a person, but not as a journalist. :)
I'm not saying he shouldn't be compensated, am I? I drag the crackscene into this, because we're all part of it. We all played/cracked games. This will be mentioned if Timbalake is smart enough to find out. It is a shameless rip-off, then again, this is the world we live in.
Besides, speaking of credits, can't remember Tempest gave credit to the original painter of his Disco demo picture. (The girl in white dress).
At least Burglar doesn't care he's a hypocrit, coz we all are over here.
Hein. I'm not a journalist. You can thank god for being wrong (again?), because if I was, I would take that as insult.. phew... ;-) |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Quote: fade: To ripp a drumbeat or a some chords or harmonys is ok and kosher, but this isnt the case. Timbaland just sample THE WHOLE SONG (- bass+drums), put his own bass+drums on it and whola two new songs (blockparty and Do it), thats my friend is NOT sampling, inspire, influenced its not even plagiarism, its simply bootlegging, stealing or theft...
Humour me here, i've just sampled a few seconds of a whole song, twisted one knob (guess which? :) and listen to the result, does this make me a bootleggz0rz, stealz0r or thefty person, even though it's hardly recognisable from it's original?
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/original.wav
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/modded.mp3
(total file size is 1.2 meg)
Edit: it should be noted that i haven't actually written any music since 2001, god only knows how kiddies can fuck around these days,with all the software around. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: Humour me here, i've just sampled a few seconds of a whole song, twisted one knob (guess which? :) and listen to the result, does this make me a bootleggz0rz, stealz0r or thefty person, even though it's hardly recognisable from it's original?
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/original.wav
http://www.stopwastingmyoxygen.com/modded.mp3
(total file size is 1.2 meg)
Edit: it should be noted that i haven't actually written any music since 2001, god only knows how kiddies can fuck around these days,with all the software around.
Fade, I don't know what do you want to prove, but as far as Do It is concerned it uses GRG's tune in bacgkround and that's undisputable. It also takes melody from Tempest's tune which is also undisputable. There is no reason for discussing this further here and simulate the dumbness of "youtube video commenting community". ;-) |
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The Overkiller
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 342 |
This timbaland ain't like a cracker, he's more like a re-cracker ;-) |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Sorry Roman, i didn't see your "you must be this leet to have your post read" sign..
Apologies! |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: Sorry Roman, i didn't see your "you must be this leet to have your post read" sign..
Apologies!
Apologies accepted. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
Roman took the words out of my mouth. I think you spot the difference of your example and what Timbeland did, musician as you are and everything. Peace! |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
fade, omg what a lame point.
timbalamer took the whole melody, you cannot miss it, its as bright as the sun.
yes he is a fuckin ripper. |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Ok, maybe my english isnt so good.. i'll dim it down a little bit..
1 ?" I take a copyrighted sample"
2 ?" change it so it is completely different"
3 ?" am i a bootlegger like timberlake y/n"
4 input a$
5 if a$ = "y" then goto 10
6 if a$ = "n" then goto 10
10 ?"okay then"
11 ?"yes i know this wrong, but can you all eat some penus butter and vaginamite?"
12 rem *** i wasnt doubting the legitimacy of the sound, i was merely asking a question
13 i'll buy an amiga
14 goodnights
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: Ok, maybe my english isnt so good.. i'll dim it down a little bit..
1 ?" I take a copyrighted sample"
2 ?" change it so it is completely different"
3 ?" am i a bootlegger like timberlake y/n"
4 input a$
5 if a$ = "y" then goto 10
6 if a$ = "n" then goto 10
10 ?"okay then"
11 ?"yes i know this wrong, but can you all eat some penus butter and vaginamite?"
12 rem *** i wasnt doubting the legitimacy of the sound, i was merely asking a question
13 i'll buy an amiga
14 goodnights
Now, this becoming truly dramatic.
Syntax error on line 13. ;-)
Anyway. Peace. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
fade: I understand what you are saying here but I dont agree on one point; Its not "completley different". Ill try to "prove" it.
1) The "original" "Do it" (first verse) http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/doit_original.mp3
2) GRG c64 version. Pithed down a little to play in the same key as "Do it". Probably what Timbaland did aswell. (first verse) http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/Acid_Jazz_sid (bass+drums removed+pithed).mp3
3) Them both mixed together! http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/doit+acid_jazz_sid.mp3
This is not to just sample a beat or some sounds here and there. Its pure theft. Peace now? :-)
EDIT: I did NOT alter the bpm of the sid version just timestreched it to play in key. So the bmp was EXACT the same in both the cases. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Quote: Hein. I'm not a journalist. You can thank god for being wrong (again?), because if I was, I would take that as insult.. phew... ;-)
I dont have to thank God for my opinion, or what do you do when you feel insulted? |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: I dont have to thank God for my opinion, or what do you do when you feel insulted?
Depends on how much I love the one who insulted me. In you case I would love the person, I would probably start "whining", as Hollowman would say. In case of someone else I would probably turn to arrogant sarcastic bitch, but I must admit, that I'm arrogant sarcastic bitch most of the time anyway. ;-) |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 411 |
What I really would like to know: Is there a "copy-protection" on Furtado's album? Can someone here enlighten me? It would be a too-good-to-be-true-joke :D |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Quote: CreamD, I respect you as a person, but not as a journalist. :)
I'm not saying he shouldn't be compensated, am I? I drag the crackscene into this, because we're all part of it. We all played/cracked games. This will be mentioned if Timbalake is smart enough to find out. It is a shameless rip-off, then again, this is the world we live in.
Besides, speaking of credits, can't remember Tempest gave credit to the original painter of his Disco demo picture. (The girl in white dress).
At least Burglar doesn't care he's a hypocrit, coz we all are over here.
Does the fact that we at some point used or played cracked software mean that we renaunce all our legal rights?.. Even though Tempest is or was part of a scene which legacy somehow is in the cracking scene, that doesn't mean that his intellectual rights have been compromized in this case, if you ask me. That said, I don't see the discussion about GRG's involvement. Credits maybe - therefore maybe Gramex (or what ever equivalent there is in Norway). Maybe he would get a portion for arrangement, but then again he didn't rearrange the original tune in his C64 conversion.. I don't know.. I just think that the point about the cracking/scene - at some point using illegal software is way over the top in this case. I'm not sure how this would be looked upon in a court of law - I'm not a lawyer. :) |
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fade
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 290 |
Quote: fade: I understand what you are saying here but I dont agree on one point; Its not "completley different". Ill try to "prove" it.
1) The "original" "Do it" (first verse) http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/doit_original.mp3
2) GRG c64 version. Pithed down a little to play in the same key as "Do it". Probably what Timbaland did aswell. (first verse) http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/Acid_Jazz_sid (bass+drums removed+pithed).mp3
3) Them both mixed together! http://www.snoddas.nu/proof/doit+acid_jazz_sid.mp3
This is not to just sample a beat or some sounds here and there. Its pure theft. Peace now? :-)
EDIT: I did NOT alter the bpm of the sid version just timestreched it to play in key. So the bmp was EXACT the same in both the cases.
I don't think anyone understands what i am saying, my question was related to abusing copyrighted music in general, not the tempest/grg tune. Which is why i said "a copyrighted" as opposed to "creative commons licenced". I wanted an opinion and was going to lead onto some seriously debated issues such as resampling and the loss of copyright once resampled.
Which was why i sampled a well known mainstream tune.
I heard this Nelly Furtardo (who?) song today and i wouldnt want my name attached to it in any way shape or form.. |
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icon
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 90 |
fade: ok, then Im the Don Quixote. I totaly missunderstood you.... Sorry.... |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
rotfl:
 |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
btw:
http://www.downsteppers.de/index.php?id=43
and
http://pouet.net/topic.php?which=3716
:DDDDDDDDDDD
you should notice that actually this is really good for the c64 scene, we get a huge attention at these days. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Quote: Does the fact that we at some point used or played cracked software mean that we renaunce all our legal rights?.. Even though Tempest is or was part of a scene which legacy somehow is in the cracking scene, that doesn't mean that his intellectual rights have been compromized in this case, if you ask me. That said, I don't see the discussion about GRG's involvement. Credits maybe - therefore maybe Gramex (or what ever equivalent there is in Norway). Maybe he would get a portion for arrangement, but then again he didn't rearrange the original tune in his C64 conversion.. I don't know.. I just think that the point about the cracking/scene - at some point using illegal software is way over the top in this case. I'm not sure how this would be looked upon in a court of law - I'm not a lawyer. :)
Good point. Frankly I dont know either how this would be looked upon in court. That's why I'd think twice before sueing. A settlement of some kind might be more comfortable. You never know what money sharks Timbaland has ready at hand to get rid of this pestering 8bit guy. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: Good point. Frankly I dont know either how this would be looked upon in court. That's why I'd think twice before sueing. A settlement of some kind might be more comfortable. You never know what money sharks Timbaland has ready at hand to get rid of this pestering 8bit guy.
You are talking about ethicity of sueing. But courts don't judge by ethicity but by law. That means, if soemone is accused of stealing he can't defend hisemlf by accusing of the other side (that would have to be settled on separate court). The side which is accusing is bringing evidence and proofs and defending side is questioning reliability of evidence or witnesses. But in this case it's plain stealing. Timbaland would only have chance to question Tempest's claims if Tempests composition was a rip-off of something which was composed even before 2000. And still only if Tempest's tune wasn't relesed under fair use.. and still that wouldn't clear his guilt. (If Timbaland did it.. that is.)
The real claim is concerning misuse of GRG's sounds and arranges.. which were released with permission, under fair use and not for profit. There is a clear evidence that recording of his SID is used in "Do it". And even if GRG had stole a big packet of beer from a store and was videotaped on security cam, Timbaland can't use that for his defence, because he stole GRG's complete arrange and sounds and accusing GRG of stealing of beer doesn't have anything with it.
(I've sent you a possible ideaof defense in PM, but after I gave it one more thought I think it's silly.. it won't work either ;) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 942 |
Thanks for the PM, it's an interesting idea. :)
I hope it will be settled outside court, it will save a lot of 'paranoid' hassle for the original author(s). |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
 |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Oswald: ...and it's still the RIAA, not the MPAA that cares about music "theft"! ;-) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: Thanks for the PM, it's an interesting idea. :)
I hope it will be settled outside court, it will save a lot of 'paranoid' hassle for the original author(s).
I think it will. According to stuff I've read from competent person, amicable settlement would be the most probable scenario. Also it's very probable that they will buy out the copyrights instead of splitting the royalties. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
Quote: Oswald: ...and it's still the RIAA, not the MPAA that cares about music "theft"! ;-)
Deekay, I've havent said anything about RIAA or MPAA. |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
Os: Check the pic you posted! ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
sigh, consult the creator of the pic on such issues not the one who posted it.:P |
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DeeKay
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 362 |
One thing that I don't understand is why Tempest himself doesn't show himself or is available for comment/interview/whatever. GRG is all over the place (congrats! ;-) with Interviews etc, and he "just" made the SID-version!
I know, he probably has to be very careful right now from a legal perspective, but see it this way: The more attention he gets, the better is his bargaining position with Geffen!
I got a mail from him (no quoting! ;-) and from that I gathered he's not unhappy at all about us making all that fuzz about it! So why doesn't he partake in it atleast a little bit himself?
Oh, btw: The story finally has reached mainstream US media since that Rollingstone feature.. There are articles popping up all over the place! ;-) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3047 |
Quote: One thing that I don't understand is why Tempest himself doesn't show himself or is available for comment/interview/whatever. GRG is all over the place (congrats! ;-) with Interviews etc, and he "just" made the SID-version!
I know, he probably has to be very careful right now from a legal perspective, but see it this way: The more attention he gets, the better is his bargaining position with Geffen!
I got a mail from him (no quoting! ;-) and from that I gathered he's not unhappy at all about us making all that fuzz about it! So why doesn't he partake in it atleast a little bit himself?
Oh, btw: The story finally has reached mainstream US media since that Rollingstone feature.. There are articles popping up all over the place! ;-)
GRG was interviewed in .NO media yet. ;-) Anyway, I wish I could read those interviews.. makes me proud (as a sidwhore and c64 scener ;-) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5086 |
quote from a random news site:
"It's just another example of the black man trying to keep the Finns down.
Hyvä Suomi!!
Hakkaa päälle suomenpoika,
ettei meitä neekerit voitta."
rotfl :) som1 plz translate it :) |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
timbalamer speaks!
FTA:
"So finally we hear Timbaland's side of the "Do It" controversy. Tim says the sample is from a video game (or so he thought) and did not steal anyone's beat. He admits to sampling but not to stealing. The dude probably has thousands upon thousands of sounds, added to that he's busy as hell so he doesn't have time to know which sound is what but he admits he did sample. Hoepfully we can all move on from this and let the lawyers work it out now."
http://thethomascrownchronicles.blogspot.com/2007/02/timbaland-..
check the 2nd mp3, start at min 6/7 or so |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
I cant deny the feeling that the entire discussion arouse to make a little scene make feel "oh..... we have something to do with the big".
This stands not in opposition to the legal demands of the orginal composers and their struggle for it. |
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Raf
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 343 |
hmm... strange guy ;-) and way too self-confident. his definition of stealing something is strange ;-) and.. hey , after all he thinks it's all okay beacuse he is well know motherfucker and "those two? do you know them? " ... shame on timbalama ;-)
BTW are all americans like that?
http://www.maxior.pl/?p=index&id=47226&0
maybe timbalame don't even know what's finnish or finland? as guy in the radio asked it twice or so... :)
www.vulture.c64.org |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
Quote:his definition of stealing something is strange
Well, he isn't a 'gansta' for nothing.
Quote:Maybe timbalame don't even know what's finnish or finland?
"Me jus'thought he wazz finished wit'it, ya'know... Like he had enough of it, bro'"
(Sorry if my gansta lingo isn't quite up to standard). |
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Rough
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1829 |
you're just a bunch a little farts for him , to say it straight
his lawyers will make a deal with grg and the other guy and off is a some change ... so what? |
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6R6
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 245 |
Ok,
here is the C-64 clip from NRK TV and Lydverket
that was aired 16.04.2008:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=OgejxlnoWYM
From 02:44 and onwards.
Norwegian only. :) |
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vedos
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 33 |
Timbo is going to have a gig in Lahti, Finland on august.
It was mentioned in news some days ago: http://yle.fi/uutiset/24h/id90127.html
The news also says that it'll be historical gig because it is Timbo's first live concert in the whole world. :D |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: |
rumors have it that most of his fans come from finland anyway |
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Smash
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2007
Posts: 9 |
Timbaland is just after a good, old pirate's boots.. (MINE! Sigh...)
Guess what brand? |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Hmmm... i have made a .mod in 1992 called Timbodance |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
Timbaland's response: "It's from a videogame, idiot. Freaking jerk."
http://www.youtube.com/user/DieStimmeAusDemOff
But then he goes into a whole word parsing thing about how he sampled instead of stole. And he lives in America, not in Finland. Then he hears something he likes but there's no credit so he just uses it. He doesn't know if it's public domain, but he just uses it and he doesn't get credit because he got it from a game. Mentions C64 and such. Lame. I'd really love to hear how this turns out. |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
someone on irc said that Tempest has closed the case, he made a deal. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
If Tempest made a deal then fine - using the music (notes, sequences etc.) are cleared. Doesn't mean it is okay to use GRGs version. |
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Death Demon
Account closed
Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 68 |
But Timbalamer was such a prick publicly about it calling Tempest an idiot, that he's way too good to steal and this Tempest guy is a nobody, etc. A behind the scenes deal probably says that he can't say anything about what happened or else he gives back the money AND loses the copyright complaint, but it's still bullshit. I think the scene should keep pressure on him and explain it's because he was such an extreme asshole about the whole thing.
Is there confirmation that a deal was made? I don't see anything about any cases having been filed or about any dispute settled anywhere. |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Is there confirmation that a deal was made? I don't see anything about any cases having been filed or about any dispute settled anywhere.
See http://www.fairlight.fi/tempest/acidjazzed_evening/
which says: "My case regarding the controversy has come to its closure. Just as before, I will not answer any questions about the case."
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11351 |
Quote:
I will not answer any questions about the case.
...and thats most likely part of the deal (common practise it is) |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
this is an old thread.. but I never saw this video till today
maybe you lot have...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiLbE0HJe8I&feature=related
4:20 minutes in.. if you have and I posted it very late, insult away =)
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DRAX
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 225 |
Wow, never seen this before... that guy really loves da sid ;) |
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Scout
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 1570 |
Heh... looks he was browsing through HVSC again for a new rip-off hit.
That 'Forbidden Colors' cover was done by...?
Thanx for posting! |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
It's the Last Ninja Remix version by Reyn, isn't it? |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbE4-TfN82c&feature=related
part 1 also, 8:55 in... but it's an arp.. so who knows maybe one of Drax's ;-) hehe
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Quoting Tempest"My case regarding the controversy has come to its closure. Just as before, I will not answer any questions about the case."
WTF? So case close, files eyes only or what ?
The biggest rip off in SID history and we don't get to know the outcome of it all ?
You gotta be kidding me. What happened, did they bribe you to shut up and made you sign a NDA ?
Fucking hilarious
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
Signing a document that keeps the details of the settlement secret is standard fare.
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Stainless Steel
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966 |
Its still bollocks nevertheless. |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Quote: It's the Last Ninja Remix version by Reyn, isn't it?
Shit, been trying to find this tune..
No luck sofar. Can anyone point to the right SID and subtune?
Thanks in advance. |
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Burglar
Registered: Dec 2004
Posts: 1085 |
Last Ninja Remix tune #4
and foggie, use http:// in front of your links.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiLbE0HJe8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbE4-TfN82c |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
off topic:
Quoting Burglar:use http:// in front of your links
Or add BB-code: [ url=http://nanme.c64.org ] (link here) [ /url ].
(Remove spaces between []). |
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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
Thanks Burglar. |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
Quote: Its still bollocks nevertheless.
not really... it's standard if that's what happened (a few friends have signed em also). Since I don't know either original maker and haven't signed one. If you mention "before release" sod all he can do about it. Since any documents post date it by a long while after release ;-)
It was more the fact of a certain interview that made me think the guy is a prize turnip.
I'm all for CREATIVE sampling (I would be a hypocrite if I said otherwise) , but not for ripping the guts out of tune. I would ask e.g. Drax etc. If I wanted to use say a VERY small snippet of his work, or create something myself from scratch.
I respect people who have done the original work and that's how I got into music making myself So for me, when this whole thing came to light it did hit a nerve.
the more video's he posts the better, trying to show off badly, it just shows exactly the tunes he likes a bit too much and how his talents are greatly hyped. |
