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mogwai
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 5 |
SID burn protection
I am planning to build a SID protection card in order to prevent more SIDs for travelling to silicon heaven.
goto80 and I was discussing the problem and he asked me to build something for him since he was burning so many SIDs during his performances.
Anyway, the reason for posting this topic in this forum is that I need as much information as possible regarding what is causing the problem. So I was wondering if you could give your stories about when you toasted your SIDs.
My guess is that it is caused by ESD. Since the C64 design is using a serial resistor connected to a transistor follower design on the audio output it is probably not caused by excessive current so my only theory right now is ESD when connecting the audio. However it is only a theory and I need as much input as possible.
If you have any nighttime horror stories about the time when your SID passed away, then please tell me. I need as much detailed info as possible regarding what you did, which cables were connected, to what, in what order or if you didn't do anything and it was just dead one morning etc.
Looking forward to your stories.
P.S. Sorry, accidentally placed the question on the coding forum. Don't know how to remove it. Reposting under general discussions.
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Mindcooler
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 28 |
I fried the sid chip in my C128D by shorting the wires from the AV port. |
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goto80
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138 |
Mogwaiii! I wish I could remember what I did all those times I broke the SIDs. Here are some ideas:
* unplugging the a/v-cable while C64 on (doh!)
* plugging it into powerful soundsystems, but through mixers
* uncareful packaging for flights (cold temperature in the airplane luggage room, airport handling in general)
* too much magnetic fields in the air (when the c64 is accompanied by shitloads of electronic devices, big soundsystems, etc)
* humanoid magnetic storms in me resulting from stun guns (!?)
* foreign voltage issues (should be ok in europe, right? but i dont know shit about electricity)
* humidity in the air?
Funny thing is that the machine I have used for the most amount of gigs, never broke down. The SX-64! I haven't been very nice to it either, but also never took it on a flight.. It seems to be the choice for us hardcore executives, after all! |
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Devia
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 401 |
Goto80: You most likely had the SX grounded with the rest of the stuff you connected it to. - if not, this is something you should do in the future!! ;-)
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mogwai
Account closed
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 5 |
Thank you for all the input. |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
Here is my sort of technical explanation why a SID chip might fail due to plugging/unplugging with C64 and audio input device ON.
When you plug in/unplug the jack the positive wire (channel A) might touch the ground of the audio input device and this might be seen as a short at the C64 audio output.
P.S.: I switched the Channels A/B on the amplifier side, but it does not affcet the explanation.
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
Since the thread is about SID protection, I wonder if a better cooling could make the SID's life longer (provided no other killing factor comes in). In fact the SID gets quite hot, especially 6581, 8580 runs cooler.
Does anybody use any cooling system? Some C64s have a metal shield which serves two purposes:
1) Electromagnetic shielding
2) Cooling (in fact there are "metal fingers" touching the hottest chips like SID, VIC, PLA)
But other C64s just have a metal coated thick paper, useful only for Electromagnetic shielding and even blocking the heat exchange.
So I though I might put a piece of metal on top of hot chips to make their life longer. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1646 |
Let's put fans in our C64 so they start sounding awful!!!
...but, yes, I think that is pretty much the recieved view on why they added the "cooling stuff" in later models.
@Mogwai: What are your plans? Will it result in a product which people could by, assembled and ready-yo-use?
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Okay, since I posted in the duplicate thread and it doesn't seem like any admin merged the threads, I'll repost my message here:
Well, every time I've killed a SID, I have been fiddling with the AV-cable one way or another. Last time was at the last LCP in Linköping. Someone had fiddled with my monitor and removed my AV-cable so I had to re-hook my c128 up to it again. Either I was so static that I blew it when I was touching the AV contacts, or I inserted the wrong contact into the wrong place on the monitor (audio where video should be or something). I can't remember, but the SID died anyway...
Then again, we have blown quite a few compo machine SID's at FLOPPY, when the computer has been connected to an amplifier. Not all of them were blown during hook-up, I think we had accidents while turning on/off the amplifier and shit like that too...
Sorry for not being to specific here... but This is a great initiative Mogwai! We really need to protect our precious SID's, they're getting scarce by the minute! |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
..about the heat-issue, too much heat is ofcourse never good, and cooling your chips is probably a good idea, but I don't think I ever blew a SID due to overheating... The SID get quite hot, but it seem natural. |
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ready.
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 441 |
Sure, self generated heat does not blow up the SID, but let's assume a SID without cooling lives for 15 years, a SID with cooling might last 30 years.
Back to the protection device:
1) I am interested to know how ALIH managed to protect it using optocouplers, these toys are known to be not linear at all, so I think he might get sound distorsion. Please ALIH, let us know what you use!!!!
2) The SID Station by Elektron uses a SID--> I assume SID Station is not affected by burned SIDs as the stock C64 is--> what is protecting the SID inside the SID Station? |
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