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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
User Comment
Submitted by Mojzesh [PM] on 27 July 2022
@wacek Before I left arise (a year ago), the only language on PC you knew at that time was PC Basic. Your poor coding skills and the absence of own demosystem developed solely by arise (it was all spaghetti code) was one of the key points that made me leave your group (among several others). It’s clear to me - especially by judging your answer to this - that you didn’t write the compressor yourself (don’t lie, I know you well enough) … To change my mind, just prove it (there are lots of ways to prove it without the need to reveal the source code).
And do you finally know in 2022 how many CPU cycles are eaten by a given number of sprites, you so-called ‘brilliant coder’?
Ps. You were using the same compressor in the past and you told me so yourself back then you didn’t write it :D |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting Mojzesh@krill Except for a fact that this demo is trying to cheat viewers by tricking them to think that most of the effects are calculated in realtime (which I must agree it would be a huge achievement if it was true, but unfortunately it is still just an animation). So if you can swallow that, then it’s your business. That there is at most one degree of freedom (point on the timeline) is pretty obvious from the start, and the animation point is driven home when the TWO disk-change requests appear all too soon. =)
But to me, this demo's strength isn't real-time calculation, but a fresh style of presentation and a catchy soundtrack. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting JammerEspecially C64 is definitely the weakest CPU among all 8bits Debatable. C-16/Plus4's CPU runs at 0.88 MHz most of the time, when the raster beam is in the visible area (not in the border), plus there are two badlines in a char row, and no sprites, of course. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
The best advice is probably not to sell prefabricated stuff pretending to be hand-made and everyone will be fine. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting F7sus4The best advice is probably not to sell prefabricated stuff pretending to be hand-made and everyone will be fine. What are you referring to, specifically? |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting MojzeshExcept for a fact that this demo is trying to cheat viewers by tricking them to think that most of the effects are calculated in realtime
I do see where Mojzesh is coming from with this one. It's already an established standard in C64 demos to show off coders' skills with rotating cubes (and bonus effects) as much as how many dots are there rotating on a screen etc.
E2IRA utilizes this trend to show something similar which isn't calculated real-time (not just once, but here quite obviously). Was this part made intentionally to trick the audience? Perhaps. Maybe. We may argue about the motivations, but the controversy is there for a reason. It kinda reminds me of something:
Jodee Berry expected a brand new Toyota after winning a contest, but was presented with a toy Yoda instead.
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting F7sus4Was this part made intentionally to trick the audience? Perhaps. Maybe. Demos often being stage-magician-like smoke and mirrors isn't new, is it? =)
It's still rather obviously a 1-DOF animation at the core, with some visible quantisation artefacts.
But another tradition of old is including a user mode when you want to leave no doubt about the realtime-ness. =) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 659 |
People need to calm down re: real-time vs animation. The demo looks great and I voted for it based on that. Yeah, I like code porn, and this doesn’t have as much of it… but it’s still a great demo.
It’s also not a new thing to joke/trick the viewer… Crossbow’s 256 DYCPs, for example, are nothing like a proper 256 DYCP’er code wise - but for what is presented on screen, it’s essentially the same.
The spinning tunnel in Bromance is an animation.
The turn-disk wrapped logo in Memento Mori is an animation.
Etc etc etc…
Honestly, if people need to argue the case of what a good/bad demo is, they’re missing the point. Just relax. Enjoy. Go make a demo about it if you don’t like it. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting KrillIt's still rather obviously a 1-DOF animation at the core, with some visible quantisation artefacts.
The question was whether the 1-DOF animation at the core with some visible quantisation artefacts does pose as a real-time effect or not, and who figured it out at spot.
Design-wise, I do enjoy E2IRA wholeheartedly (and even more than I do enjoy sampled SID music once in a while). |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Yes, and "real-time vs animation" is a continuum anyways, with very very few (if any) effects being 100% real-time. It's about how many degrees of freedom there are, really. :) |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 519 |
what mighty Raistlin said.
let's hope someone will never come up with some unnecessary demo-rules, like for cracking:
a demo must contain 30% of pre-calculated animation data max, all people must be credited, scrollers must scroll (uh?), F4CG must always be greeted, etc. bleah. |
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