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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
The highest level of admiration is imitation ;)
Joker guys made our day at Xenium with this one!
https://youtu.be/kl8dH7ooRyU |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Be civil, guys. :-) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Quoting F7sus4Be civil, guys. :-)
LOL! <3 |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 219 |
This is a reply to the renewed discussion in prod's comments which got closed, but existing comments didn't get migrated here, so it may look odd.
Anyway, the discussion was about something being or not being real-time. But what exactly qualifies as real-time I ask? I mean, if LUTs are being used for some effect, is it really real-time? Should it be considered real-time? How many true real-time stuff is C64 capable of anyway? I'm not sure what to think, so I'm asking. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Pretending best zoom4 demos from the 90s do not have precalculated stuff and LUTs is fucking retarded.
So is creating artificial personal standards of what is a demo and what is not, and then complaining publicly that what is out there is not complying to that self-created standard.
10 months of butthurt and counting.
Jesus fucking christ people. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting 4gentEAnyway, the discussion was about something being or not being real-time. But what exactly qualifies as real-time I ask? I mean, if LUTs are being used for some effect, is it really real-time? Should it be considered real-time? How many true real-time stuff is C64 capable of anyway? I'm not sure what to think, so I'm asking. Filling up the available memory with tables and other precalced data before thinking about optimisation is the standard approach for any demo effect.
In my book, realtime vs animation boils down to how many degrees of freedom there are for rendering.
The many degrees of freedom in a real-time effect (as opposed to the one DOF with animation) make the difference.
Some demos/effects come with a user-mode to interrupt the streamlined trackmo presentation and play around with a joystick.
That said, E2IRA is a great demo, no matter the technical details. =)
Anyone complaining about animation should provide similar effects, but in real-time. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Quoting KrillAnyone complaining about animation should provide similar effects, but in real-time.
This, or STFU. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 219 |
Quoting KrillIn my book, realtime vs animation boils down to how many degrees of freedom there are for rendering.
I can totally subscribe to that book.
Quoting KrillAnyone complaining about animation should provide similar effects, but in real-time.
Word.
Quoting KrillSome demos/effects come with a user-mode to interrupt the streamlined trackmo presentation and play around with a joystick.
Hard to do nowadays, since interactivity, even of the sort of 'press space to advance the mega-demo' fell out of grace at the parties (understandably so) in favor of the trackmo format.
Anyway that's my 2c, but then again I'm a literal nobody... |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting 4gentEQuoting KrillSome demos/effects come with a user-mode to interrupt the streamlined trackmo presentation and play around with a joystick.
Hard to do nowadays, since interactivity, even of the sort of 'press space to advance the mega-demo' fell out of grace at the parties (understandably so) in favor of the trackmo format. The point is to showcase the realtimeness by interactivity to inquiring minds at home, not during the party presentation.
This is entirely orthogonal to the trackmo format and thus can be mixed. |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
Not to mention, animation is not easier or less painful to write than 'math' ;) The only benefit is that once written good infrastructure for animation can be quite easily reused. But this wasn't actually the case for E2IRA as there was always some additional element included which required customized effort. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 659 |
Quoting OswaldSo for you two a "painting" made by sending a prompt to DALL-E, wins over a true painting, because you cant tell the difference just by looking at it.
You seem to miss the point. The tunnel from Bromance that you mention isn't a good example - it's lossy-packed so, of course, you can see that it's an anim. It still looks fantastic though..
But anyway.. if you show me two absolutely identical pictures, one drawn on screen using some fancy math and another that's just a PNG.. yeah, you're right, I can't tell the difference just by looking. But then neither can anyone - because they're the exact same picture.
Quoting OswaldNo magic for me in packing down animations to small sizes, sorry. C64 scene was always about doing shit realtime, and for me will always will be.
I just checked the code in Star Wars Demo's Flip Disk part and, hats off to you, I never realised that that wasn't an animation.. and now it makes sense to me why there are so few frames... it looks like 30-32 frames..? Which would be 15-16 if you'd used D011/D018 trickery to handle mirroring.
In a coding competition, I could understand the effort. For a demo competition like X, being brutally honest, I don't .. hats off to you, as I say.. but a precomputed animation could've been a lot easier, could've looked much better .. and maybe it would've left you enough time to code a Star Wars scroller for that demo..? ;p
Summary:
Do what you like. If you like to code these things, and allow someone else to more easily show a smoother version, go for it. There are no rules about how C64 demos should be made - regardless of your quoted comments ;-) |
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