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2024-12-14 20:29

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732

Release id #248202 : AIrrested

I'll help the moderators: Drama posts go here:

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2024-12-15 23:38

wil

Registered: Jan 2019
Posts: 62

Quote: @Fungus:

We’re slightly offtopic and I know it.
I hear you. All that is cool. It’s not that I think AI will destroy music or artwork. It will instead destroy the livelihoods of people doing creative work. It will exchange those people with less talented people. And this is not misuse of this technology, it’s its main purpose. To drive the price of creative work down. To serve executives to get a better stranglehold on the creatives. You mentioned synths. Synths got used by musicians, not executives and data-analysts. I’m not merely speculating of this destruction, 2 of my proffessional acquaintances already fell victims to this. In fact, one of them is also a friend. The first one lost a newspaper caricature gig to a guy that uses AI. The guy he lost the gig to is a coder and data analyst who never held a pencil or charcoal in his hand. The other one walked over to the dark side, and landed a gig with the help of AI by offering the client 100+ crappy solutions, beating an honest guy who offered 3 pretty great handcrafted ones. So, we can philosophize from high above all we want, but people are already suffering from this sh*t. I see no reason to let it wreak havoc in our money free little community.

I don't doubt that AI will have a disruptive effect on many creative (and probably almost all other) jobs. You examples show that this is already happening and I sympathize with your friends facing this challenge.
But I think that the development and use of AI cannot be stopped, regardless of our efforts on calling out suspected AI art or protecting our servers from being scraped. History has shown that technological advancement, once created finds its way.
That said, and trying hard to not sound too neoliberal here, I think that such disruptions also bring chances and opportunities coming up, but we have to adapt.

Also AI does not care what we think about it. But an unfortunate artist, who is accused of doing something wrong will have a hard time independent of the fact if the cause is real or not. So let's be nice to our artists (and everyone else).

2024-12-16 00:53

Raistlin

Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680

I’ve seen AI destroy almost an entire industry - concept art. I say “almost” because, for now, they’re finding alternate work. But these guys made concept work for big movies (some of the biggest, including Marvel’s movies). Now? Others working on the movies, such as the creative director, can simply play around with Midjourney until they get a look that’s right for the scene they want to do. And for now these concepts are passed to 3D artists to sculpt out. Later on, the AI will take that part too of course.

I saw a movie director say that he expected one day he wouldn’t need anyone else at all to make a movie, he could do it all himself. The shock for him will be this: when that day comes, movies as we know them are dead: people at home will simply ask the AI to make a movie that they’ll like.

I don’t relish this, I think it’s disastrous. But good for such as Elon Musk perhaps - he can sit with his android girlfriend and watch whatever weird porn he can dream up a prompt for.

2024-12-16 04:41

Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465

people losing jobs is altogether a separate problem.
we are not a commercial industry, we can afford to see it from a purely philosophical (if not pleasantly irrational - just like art is) standpoint. but some of you mix the two up :)

2024-12-16 05:05

Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465

i'd offer you my two grosze, but i'm not in the visual arts world. musicians have it slightly better, working in abstract instead of representative. so the parallels would be inaccurate.

2024-12-16 08:38

CopAss

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 21

@raistlin: It also affected photographers, stock photography "photographers" practically disappeared. Models don't have to pay, nor do photographers. AI does it completely for free.
AI is also increasingly used in print advertising, and smaller companies have also made the switch.

2024-12-16 09:07

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

Quote:

we are not a commercial industry

Exactly. Which is why we don't need to mess with this technology that is precisely aiming to circumvent creatives altogether, and leave only executives / producers with toys.

2024-12-16 10:22

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 686

Sure it's going to cost people their jobs, but you can't stop that. Companies want profit and care nothing of their workers, bottom line.

Ask former Disney animators when everything started to be shipped off to Asian studios, almost all of them lost their jobs, and had to change careers.

Now people are losing their jobs to robots too, is any of that going to stop? Nope, Robots don't need pensions, health care or sleep.

None of this would be, if it wasn't a society based purely on exploitation and profits. It's never been any different, these trends have been since the industrial revolution, the turn around is just faster now as technology progresses at a faster rate.

2024-12-16 10:47

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

I understand. What marks the spot where I draw the line is the fact that prompt-to-image tools change the very essence of visual creative work. I see unbroken line (yes sometimes jagged, but a line) from the first cave paintings all the way to Koalapainter, Deluxe Paint, onto Blender or Photoshop.
I mean, it's one thing to force the artist to use a graphic tablet or a mouse instead of chalk and coal. But forcing him to verbally prompt the machine for the result (the machine that has been fed his own past artistic output and the artistic output of everyone everywhere since the dawn of time), to circumvent his eye-brain-hand talent and training if he wants to keep his/her job is something fundamentally new and different from everything that came before.

I'm aware that nobody can stop this. I was hoping we could perhaps keep it outside of this tightly knit, almost incestuous group inside which there is zero economic interest.

2024-12-16 11:25

Bitbreaker

Registered: Oct 2002
Posts: 508

I try to light up another perspective on this topic: If people want to achieve goals with minimum effort and consider cheating a viable way, they will cheat. Even rules like workstatges will not stop this, as then just workstages are faked, and if tools can detect AI, then workstages are faked even further. Funny enough there should be some breakeven-point where cheating costs even more skills and energy than simply drawing your own stuff :-D The reason for putting so much energy into something, has reasons and speak for a high need that is worth doing so.

So it is about profit (and as a consequence power one gains), the personal profit, be it by money, by fame, by attention. This is pretty much selfish and this usually comes with a deficit in empathy and a lack of fairness if it is achieved by all means. I can fully understand, that this is upsetting, and i understand the urge to bring those people to fall.

There is maybe not much one can do to stop such people (or inventions), but we can distance ourself from that by doing it different, by not selling our soul, our values, being transparent, being an idol for others and by that not ending up as emotionally wrecked. If we start fighting, we start war, and that always means to loose, we loose ourselves in pointless discussions, loose our dignity and inb the end feed those who need it with attention, it does not always matter if it is positive or negative.

If people want to give least effort for maximum profit, those people want to cheat, to lie, to cause drama, it is their own shortcomings that is responsible for that. Maybe feeling sorry for what they do is a better option?

2024-12-16 12:00

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

@Bitbreaker:

At first, I had this idea that if people communicate, this will get settled. I wasn't aware that this non-material economic, this fame capital balance you pointed out was so important to some people that they will succumb to cheating their own friends. I thought, we don't have to "forbid" anything because the artists themselves will sport this "chivalry", this solidarity. After all, it's in their best interest in the long run. But I guess, with the advancement of AI, the allure grew to a point where everyone suddenly felt he/she can/should portray him/herself as an artist.

So with that naivety out of the window, I can fully endorse your words.

However, if and when this situation wears out the old gfx masters, if and when compos find themselves bare of great gfx artwork and AI prevails, it will be to late to act. Just a thing to bear in mind.

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