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2023-12-22 18:03

Sander

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493

Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal

Dear fellow sceners,

This is an attempt to get more understanding among, and for, C64 demoscene pixel artists. It’s not written to limit anyone, but a prayer for more transparency.

Read the document here: ->Graphics on C64 demoscene: Guide of Ethics – a Proposal<-

We tried to give define and value different processes. Which is a result of discussion, where we saw mutual grounds and felt the need to write these down.
We will update the document periodically, when enough input has been gathered and sorted out.

We’d really love to hear your thoughts on the subjects in the document.
Please post them in this thread.

(Personally I will not always fully comply to these guidelines myself, but I will continue to be transparant about it. However, I do agree with the values communicated in this document.)

2023-12-22 18:40

iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3142

"scene" "ethics"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

2023-12-22 19:06

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933

While I agree with most of it, I didn't sign it, because I think everyone should decide for themselves what's right and what's wrong.

Besides, outside of this scene I just do my 'art', with and without references, mostly without workstages (I'm not recording my process or anything) and I'm perfectly happy working on it without any of these guidelines. Then again, I don't publish them, so it doesn't challenge anyone's personal ethics either.

I understand from a professional point of view, these guidelines are important (I've done game graphics in the past that obviously couldn't be copies of copyrighted work), but now I'm a c64 scene amateur fiddling around with pixels, so yeah, I can kinda do what I want here. :P

Anyway, the ones who signed it are the best artists in this (and Amiga) scene, so I think these are valuable considerations for artistic growth.

2023-12-22 19:13

LDX#40

Registered: Jun 2008
Posts: 8

Good idea, but I think it is a very long - well actually too long in my opinion - text. Maybe it could be condensed down to the essentials like: "credit all source material, mention use of AI" (yes, this is very minimalist).

2023-12-22 19:30

Jammer

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1294

I wholeheartedly support being ethical and transparent but I also support free and good will in expressing it. Best way is as usual setting an example yourself so more and more people will follow ;)

2023-12-22 22:14

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036

Quote: Good idea, but I think it is a very long - well actually too long in my opinion - text. Maybe it could be condensed down to the essentials like: "credit all source material, mention use of AI" (yes, this is very minimalist).

Actually, it's not that long. It took me about 5 minutes to read with comprehension. while It took me hours to read the unfortunate "vangelis thread".

2023-12-22 23:24

Peacemaker

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243

So it seems, you still did not understand that showing some workstages do not prof anything. Ah well.

2023-12-23 01:47

Nim

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27

This is not ethics, ethics is about character and moral philosophy. The whole discussion that led up to this stunk of bad ethics. In fact, good ethics are best demonstrated without guidelines or some kind of regulation, all regulations do is gatekeep the ones who dont give fuck, and attract those who see ways to cheat the regulation.

Heres ethics for you... Dont lie, cheat, steal, defame, harm other people or their possessions and keep your promises.

In other words, honesty, integrity, respect for others, and honoring commitments.

In my humble opinion, much of the glue of the scene is based on the fact that the scene is largely a trust based community. Which is why drama, both painful to watch and entertaining at the same time, can be a healthy part of the scene, it airs grievances and bullshit gets called out - as long as it doesn't go too far that is 😉

Rules are reserved for competitions of particular skill sets.

I'm sure more could be said and probably more thought out as well, but yea, this is pretty much my 2 cents worth...

2023-12-23 02:46

Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 631

Tools are tools, why is this is even a debate. I remember this in the late 90s when people starting using PC to convert, now it's accepted.

Everyone can tell when people hand pixel stuff, and when they don't, so it's just really weird to me anymore with the elitism and gatekeeping mentality.

2023-12-23 03:27

PAL

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 271

Embracing the Unpredictable Magic

Pixel art, the sheer joy it brings! Each square, a pixel, a piece of a magical puzzle. With limited colors come infinite possibilities, opening doors to a multi-level journey in art.

Yet, a demand for a solitary pilgrimage from idea to completion feels strange, especially when compared to the free-spirited ethos of demos. The demo scene thrives on real-time trickery, resisting the need for explanations. Pixel art isn't about conformity; it's about the unexpected thrill of creation in the moment.

Whether painting freely, using reference images, blending elements from our world, or incorporating AI-generated ideas, the canvas is limitless within its constraints. The Commodore 64 platform may not hold the assets found in the real world, and there's nothing wrong with importing video or stock footage to enhance creations.

Enter AI, not to steal the show but as a creative partner, suggesting and enhancing our artistic waltz. Will AI take over? No, it's a co-pilot, enhancing the human mind, where emotions are the strokes that color our canvas.

Pixel art's future isn't surrendering to AI; it could embrace it, working together as captains with AI as our copilot. However, automated pipelines that claim perfection raise suspicion. True art involves the unpredictability of creation, not a rigid, unchanged pixel through multiple stages.

Whether it's the Commodore 64 or anything else, art is about freedom. No suffocating rules.

For many old-timers, the epic moments were recreating something from famous art or images. Is that all gone now? Is it illegal? Talent, recreating Vangelis' portrait and more from reference images—is that a crime? The methods are unclear, but is it wrong?

No matter what one expresses, asserts, or shares openly within our community, there seems to be a tendency for someone to disapprove or dissent, leading to internal chaos for the individual who dared to speak. Let us foster an environment of openness and mutual acceptance. The escalating conflicts within our community are becoming overwhelming, and it's time for a more harmonious and understanding approach.

In the end, amidst the debates and complexities, let's not lose sight of why we embarked on this creative journey. Pixel art, demos, and the Commodore 64 are not just about perfection or conformity. They're about the sheer joy of creation, the thrill of pushing boundaries, and the magic that unfolds when passionate minds come together.

Let's revel in the freedom to express, explore, and compete—not as adversaries but as companions in this creative odyssey. In the pixelated realms and beyond, let's celebrate the camaraderie that arises from shared enthusiasm.

So, here's to late nights of coding, to spontaneous strokes of the pixel brush, to the sound of demos playing on repeat, and to the friendships that transcend pixels and screens. Let's venture beyond our comfort zones, compete in new arenas, and create memories that echo with the laughter of kindred spirits.

In the grand tapestry of the demo scene, may the threads of creativity, friendship, and adventure weave together seamlessly. Let's cherish the thrill of the journey, the beauty of imperfections, and the boundless joy of creating alongside the most fantastic, creative friends. Here's to having a blast—on and off the screen—because in the end, it's the shared moments of fun and creativity that make this journey truly extraordinary.

Very great document - I can not sign it, I do not want to sign it- I want a raw, freee andlimitless scene and everything goes... that is why this scene still blossoms, why try to kill it?

your PAL

2023-12-23 05:14

Nim

Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 27

PAL, pixel and wordsmith both 😉

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