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Sander
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 493 |
An update on ‘Pixel art in the C64 demoscene’
Dear fellow sceners,
In response to the comments we received, we’ve made some changes to the document.
Our goal was always to find common ground to maintain the fun and integrity of our hobby.
What this is not:
- It’s not written to limit anyone (only to encourage openness)
- It’s not aimed at specific individuals (it’s a scene wide practice)
Read the document here
We’d really love to hear your thoughts on this update.
Please post them in this thread, be kind and keep it constructive and on-topic please. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:I expect if a tool came out that could do this better than a human can code asm (or even as good as), we might start to see some coders who wanted competitions that celebrated the traditional ways of doing things.
Every modern compiler on a modern platform produces better asm code than most coders (even good ones).
And on C64... you'd be surprised how much code has been generated and optimized by tools. Since decades. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: Quote:Let's flip the question around. why do people try to hide that they're doing this? The document is asking for transparency.
That's a completely different question to me.
If someone really drew something by himself and then scanned it - how does it even matter if he works this way, or drew it in photoshop, or in Koalapainter?
This whole "transparency" really only makes sense to me IF someone is using 3rd party material.
Maybe to a lot of people it doesn't. If people are transparent, the audience can decide. |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 248 |
Quote: Quoting wsWhat about C/C++ code that is transpiled to C64 asm? Cannot be compared, and please do not say "transpile". =)
Ok, sorry, you're right, i used the wrong term. So: when someone writes code in any high-level language and compiles it to C64 ML, isn't that compareable in terms of "conversion"? |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: Quote:I expect if a tool came out that could do this better than a human can code asm (or even as good as), we might start to see some coders who wanted competitions that celebrated the traditional ways of doing things.
Every modern compiler on a modern platform produces better asm code than most coders (even good ones).
And on C64... you'd be surprised how much code has been generated and optimized by tools. Since decades.
Unless I've missed something, C64 demos are not usually written in c++. There's a reason for that? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:Maybe to a lot of people it doesn't. If people are transparent, the audience can decide.
To me this whole debate seems to be much more about curiosity than fairness by now. And as for that, when i am curious about how someone made this and that - i'll ask. I might get an answer (and often do), or not - and both is just fine. No one is obliged to tell anyone. Or even do it in advance.
Quote:Unless I've missed something, C64 demos are not usually written in c++. There's a reason for that?
Not directly, sure. But all kinds of high level languages (including c++, i am sure) are used to produce the code in one way or another. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote:To me this whole debate seems to be much more about curiosity than fairness by now. And as for that, when i am curious about how someone made this and that - i'll ask. I might get an answer (and often do), or not - and both is just fine.
From a graphician's point of view, process is interesting to see and sharing that process helps us learn. Again, the document mentions that. It's about fairness as well though. |
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ws
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 248 |
@deev - not that i am a fan of his work, but would you consider the art of andy warhol unworthy to be entered into a compo, as in "unoriginal/uncreative" ? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:From a graphician's point of view, process is interesting to see and sharing that process helps us learn.
Sure, that's the same with code - obviously. That's purely about curiosity though. And you can't demand anyone to share anything because you are curious. |
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Deev
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 206 |
Quote: Quote:From a graphician's point of view, process is interesting to see and sharing that process helps us learn.
Sure, that's the same with code - obviously. That's purely about curiosity though. And you can't demand anyone to share anything because you are curious.
No-one is demanding anything, it's a proposal. Sander asked for people's thoughts. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:No-one is demanding anything
really? Are we looking at the same document? Have we seen the same walls of outcry recently? I really wonder.
But that's exactly why i was mentioning demos vs gfx compos. In a compo you can demand this and that. Elsewhere... not so much. You could kindly ask, and might get an answer. Or not. |
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