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Forums > CSDb Discussions > will some 1 please tell me why

2004-03-08 21:32

Faith
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2004
Posts: 148

will some 1 please tell me why

we have in the last days votet some groups in top 5! just for fun .......... and the most funny about it is few minutes after some 1 votet it down with 1 point , it seems to be somebody like to bee on the top 5 , so please can we get publised votes in here so we can see who the rullers are there are the voting 1 point for groups in here .....

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2004-03-10 14:10

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: chill out guys :D I think this conversation started to take wrong direction... but.. what should I know, I'm a lamer, who started in c64 scene only 2 years ago... :P well how about a system (which was probably mentioned before) that everyone votes their top 5-10 of all-time in every genre.. takes more work but then it would make good to oldschool elites and talented newcomers too...

dunno... this definately is a difficult issue...

Don't worry, I ain't mad, I just think it's strange to say that active sceners don't have a chance when all the charts show a perfect mix of old & new.

Now don't make me go give examples :)

2004-03-10 14:19

Nightlord
Account closed

Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 131

Quote: Bullsh*t.

This is not a mag, so don't compare these charts with charts in the mags. CSDB is all about history (it's a database for god's sake!), so the charts should stay like they are right now: all-time charts.

Your example (Bohemian Rhapsody) is not in the top 40 but in most of the top 100 ever charts. As it should be.

If you want current charts load up arachnophobia or one of those other brilliant mags. You give me my Queen, and then you can keep your Britney Spears for yourself, so to speak :)

:)))))
i am a big fan of queen and especially bohemian rapsody. as i am a big fan of tts and quiss. that is why i chose bohemian rapsody as an example. but on the other hand i do not think your examples britney speartits or arachnophobia mag are accurately representing what i was meaning with newcomers and diskmags:)

should csdb include current charts are all time charts. hmm i think you have a point when you say this is a database and so it should have all time charts. i am convinced on this point.

on the other hand i have some doubts about whether is there any fair way to compare coders of two different decades. somethink that looks trivial today can be an amazing achievement 10 years ago. so new coders have advantage or vice versa i think coders of old times had more margin to the limits of hardware. that is it is getting harder and harder to break records etc.

my point is how can one judge is oswald a better coder than slammer for example. notice i am choosing examples very carefully and i hope you see the logic behind it and don't come up with another comparison between freddy mercury and enrique iglesias(just kidding:))

2004-03-10 14:42

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: :)))))
i am a big fan of queen and especially bohemian rapsody. as i am a big fan of tts and quiss. that is why i chose bohemian rapsody as an example. but on the other hand i do not think your examples britney speartits or arachnophobia mag are accurately representing what i was meaning with newcomers and diskmags:)

should csdb include current charts are all time charts. hmm i think you have a point when you say this is a database and so it should have all time charts. i am convinced on this point.

on the other hand i have some doubts about whether is there any fair way to compare coders of two different decades. somethink that looks trivial today can be an amazing achievement 10 years ago. so new coders have advantage or vice versa i think coders of old times had more margin to the limits of hardware. that is it is getting harder and harder to break records etc.

my point is how can one judge is oswald a better coder than slammer for example. notice i am choosing examples very carefully and i hope you see the logic behind it and don't come up with another comparison between freddy mercury and enrique iglesias(just kidding:))

Hey, don't you dare to diss enrique inglesias! The boy got style, dammit! :)

Comparing people from 15 years ago to those of today is very, very hard ..

With demos it's (a bit) easier: I myself have been in the process of rating demos for ages now, hoping to get a final list of productions that really stand out from the rest. Most demos I used to love dearly didn't stand the test of time but some do and they can easily be placed next to the best of the new generation.

I remember the impact a lot of coders had back when, but newer sceners don't, all they can do is imagine it. Since that's quite hard most people won't do that, and hence, won't vote for such people. Which brings me back to my original point that newer sceners get more votes. Because let's face it, there are more 'new school' than 'old school' sceners on csdb. 90% of the people I worked with in 1988 have left the scene a long time ago, and don't give a fuck about this.

2004-03-10 14:57

Wile Coyote
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646

Charts have always been odd. Take the music charts, i always remember Jeroen Tel making the top 10 two or more years after he quit. For a magazine to have charts, then they should base the votes on votes based on what has been released from one issue to another [asking alot i know] /WEC

2004-03-10 15:18

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Quote: Charts have always been odd. Take the music charts, i always remember Jeroen Tel making the top 10 two or more years after he quit. For a magazine to have charts, then they should base the votes on votes based on what has been released from one issue to another [asking alot i know] /WEC

So you're looking for a top 3 instead of a top 10 then? :)

2004-03-10 22:06

Derision

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 69

There's a boatload of things that can be done to improve this and yet, at the same time, nothing ever WILL really make the votes perfect. It's been a gripe since day one... downvoting, bla bla, it's a scene epidemic.

We could organize the charts into "per year" or "per era" categories. That way, say group A has an overall rating of 5.6 all-time, but since they were the highest rated group from 1985, they would be #1 in the 1985 charts. Of course, this relies on accurate information on when the groups existed (founding and dissolving dates)... which we don't have, far as I know.

Or we could change the voting system entirely and determine the rankings of groups and/or sceners by the votes that their productions recieved. In this manner, we could vote "Demo A" a 9 and "Demo B" might be 5, etc., and the overall group score would be determined by those numbers.

This could also be done for the individuals that contributed for those demos... but it would be innacurate, as always, because say, hypothetically, that Graham and I contributed code to the same demo. If the demo then gets a rating of 9, then I also get a 9, which is preposterous because my contribution was probably awful.

On that same thread, we can use the scener charts to determine rankings for a demo group. If Coder A gets a rating of 9, then his group (of whom he is the only coder) also gets a 9 as a "code" rating.

Most of those ideas are wildly unpractical.

This idea isn't, though... and I even kind of like it. We can kind of mesh ALL the votes together... so that if a group has nine votes for an an overall rating of 7 or something, you could take that and then work the overall ratings of it's productions (and/or sceners) into it as well. In this way, we increase the overall votes that each group/release/scener gets and diminish the result of downvoting -- which will never be erradicated.

So Group A has 9 votes for an overall rating of 7, then we add the 14 votes that it's production, "Demo" recieved for a score of 8... and we end up with 21 votes, the average of which I don't feel like figuring out.

My last thought is to just implement a downvoting blocker. A single account votes #1 three or more times, and he loses the right to vote. Also not going to stop downvoting, but it's a thought nonetheless.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled griping.

2004-03-11 12:35

Wile Coyote
Account closed

Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 646

Quote: So you're looking for a top 3 instead of a top 10 then? :)

*heh*

Well i have no objection to a magazine featuring a all time top 20 charts covering Artists, Musician, Coders, Cracker etc. Although to give the present people a chance and to keep charts alittle interesting, a chart based on current releases would be better. As for a top 3, it all depends how many releases there are between a mazagine releasing it`s issues. If a magazine were to be released very month then the charts would be very small. If how ever you take a magazine for example Internal (which is released maybe every 6 months at best) then the charts would paint a different picture /WEC :)

2004-03-11 14:31

TDJ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879

Silly me, I came up with yet another way to make charts, kind of a mix between several of the solutions mentioned above.

Every member here can select up to 10 of his favourites in a specific area. So his 10 favorite demos, coders, graphicians, cracking groups, whatever. This list is an unranked one, so every name on the list gets 1 point. Charts are compiled by basically just adding the points a scener/group/release gets from the voting members.

Members can change this list whenever and how many times they like. Lets say I already have the max. of 10 demos selected and Xenon releases an absolute killer that I feel should belong in that list as well. I should be able to press an add to favorites button on the page of that demo, and then select the demo that I want to take out of my favorites list (because I cant have 11 of them). The demo taken out gets one points less, the Xenon demo gets one more and presto: dynamic charts!

Whaddayathink?

2004-03-11 14:39

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

I actually like this idea a lot...

2004-03-11 14:56

dalezy

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476

nice idea.
one shouldn't be able to add own stuff or stuff from his own group though.

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