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Slartibartfast
Account closed
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 230 |
** Link removed by CSDb staff due to copyright. Please do not provide download links to this **
Well, there has been a few of these notices today, on certain Protovision releases that have been cracked and released by some people on CSDb.
Cracking has always been a large part of the scene, arguably the biggest and also what has ultimately ensured the scene to exist today.
If it weren't for cracking, piracy if you will, many games simply wouldn't be available on the web today. The C64dtv wouldn't have much of a lineup, all the games on it were cracks from the scene.
Now this issue has come to CSDb again, over old releases of Protovision games. Download links removed, to files which are definitely a part of the scene.
I can understand the policy on this, it's a way to protect CSDb against legal action. Other sites, for instance GB64, have tackled this by not hosting the files and just providing links to them.
But CSDb won't allow even that, if someone has an issue with their copyrighted work being available, the links will be removed. Even links provided by the user in their comment to the entry, will be censored and removed.
There is nothing regarding this policy in the CSDb FAQ, yet there is this disclaimer:
"Who's responsible for this?
We cannot take responsibility for the content of this database as all information is submitted by users."
So, that says straight out that CSDb is not responsible for the content.
It can be said that this is a way to protect CSDb in future, but from whom exactly? Can anyone honestly see Chronosoft or Protovision sueing anyone? Or if this is a measure to protect CSDb, could it go further and remove all cracks from the site?
On the other hand, CSDb are just trying to protect themselves, from Protovision apparently. Should we take the old debate over piracy directly to Protovision? As sceners themselves, they should know better than to be taking on this issue against sceners. Don't we all know by now that the people who would download these cracks, are not the same people that would buy it? That some of the people that get the game for free may even consider buying it at a later point?
One of the Protovision founders was a cracker himself, other members have been crackers, swappers or undoubtedly recipients of pirated software themselves.
This seemed to start with Macgyver altering a release of a PTV game here yesterday. A member of Protovision and also a CSDb admin. He was a swapper in the past.
Is this censorship really necessary? Do Protovision really think they would lose sales of these games, does CSDb really think there is any threat of legalities from an admin of this site?
This is an issue that strikes deep with many in the scene, and this site is an essential part of the scene today.
Surely there must be a better way to deal with this.
So let's discuss it here rather than in comments on these censored releases ;) |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
The original *removed* comment was submitted by Perff, not MacGyver. So it looks like either MacGyver, with his admin rights, managed to fake the comment (dunno if that's possible for an admin here), or Perff is backing him. |
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cba
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 935 |
Quote: The original *removed* comment was submitted by Perff, not MacGyver. So it looks like either MacGyver, with his admin rights, managed to fake the comment (dunno if that's possible for an admin here), or Perff is backing him.
No Richard was making a comment on the Bomb Mania crack.
And yes Perff seems to be a big PTV lover.
Niels |
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MagerValp
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1074 |
The C64dtv wouldn't have much of a lineup, all the games on it were cracks from the scene.
Actually, we used originals where we could (e.g. the crt image for Pitstop, and a few others). We only had two weeks to fix 30 games, so unfortunately there wasn't time to hunt down original tapes or disks.
As for this rather weird topic: CSDB is a scene database. Either have cracks in the db, with links, or don't have any game entries at all. Using admin rights to watch anonymous votes and lock entries is extremely lame.
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Street Tuff
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 88 |
somewhen in a not to distant future.
welcome to CSDb
the commodore scene demo base
(cracking is a crime!)
*scnr* |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
scene database := no public access, access applications, application reviews
Information on CSDb is readily available to anyone, most of it even without user account. It might not have accured to anyone yet, but while CSDb might be a database about the scene, it is not primarily a database for or by the scene... as proven by MacGyver being an admin =D |
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iopop
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 317 |
Just to start up an old discussion again.
I still think that cracks/games should _not_ be stored in the form they are today. I would prefer a Gamers Guide form instead. Where the game itself is at toplevel and the cracks, with infos such as block length/trainers, are included as different versions.
This would prevent strange comments like giving 10 to a crack of Turbo outrun because the music in the game is "sooo great!".
To be on topic, the so called "commercial" PTV and "Bayliss" games shouldnt be here at all. There are other sites for that, gamebase64 for example. Or would it be ok for me to add my c64 based pr0n-pay site as a "c64 misc." release? given that I had such. |
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Jazzcat
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1044 |
<MacGyver: Everybody who wrote negative about me in this thread is ip-banned from CSDb>
** Comment removed by Slarti due to copyright ** |
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Dane
Account closed
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 421 |
Iopop, wrong topic! Promote your site elsewhere! |
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Seven
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 202 |
(still) my full ack to the "games and their cracks" thing.
Sometimes I get the impression Perff isn't really interested in spending much time on CSDb anymore, much of the things that have been discussed never really got done. |
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The Blue Ninja
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 4 |
I really do not understand how some people here can be proud of their cracking career and do think why cracking is still essential today for the C64 scene.
I can hear them yell:
Jippieh, I am #1 in the "being lame by cracking unprotected games, adding some simple trainers and being able to link an intro infront of them" Top-10.
That cracking scene is no scene, it is a kindergarten.
Who really needs those people anyway? IMHO there are no challenges anymore to justify the existence of that scene!
Times have changed and the crackers lost their justification to exist.
Maybe there are some exceptions that make old games work with hardware they were not designed for as well as emulators and those people that preserve old software for the generations beyond. But besides that I can not see any justification to support such a scene.
Culture in that scene has died long ago. Sad as it is.
The Blue Ninja |
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