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2013-12-13 22:23
Didi

Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486
Comment editing disabled

What's the reason for disabling this, please?
 
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2013-12-16 08:22
FATFrost
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 211
Hmmm I think a release should have either a trivia section then if there is a discussion regarding the release then it should have a link for forum discussions as that's what forums are for... Oh and instead of votes just have a likes same as Facebook... Its like DVD extras at the moment... I don't care if the actors secretly hated each other... I just want to enjoy the film...(demo)... Zzzz
2013-12-16 09:00
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote: Quote:
the voting system on CSDb works way more than fine.

coffee. everywhere /o\


Quite obviously, the one and only fucking problem people have with it, are the anonymous zealots. A minor annoyance is maybe the odd score calculation when low number of votes are casted on a product (which is usually temporary anyway). Everything else, believe it or not, works just fine.

But for fuck's sake Groepaz. For once, how about actually addressing the crucial parts of a post of mine instead of just pulling out half-sentences out of context, just to intentionally slander them with tedious and unimaginative remarks?

Oh and...

"people cant behave with the regular anonymous voting (which apparently they even find very important)"

There, FTFY.
2013-12-16 16:46
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357
the fundamental problem is that people mistake votes as a tool to determine the quality of their productions. and that their importance is blown largely out of proportion. and they blame the anonymous zealots for it, which by itself indeed makes a huge part of the problem.

and the same people come and think that in a subculture which is largely based on ragging and calling each other names while blowing votes out of proportion a discussion will get more reasonable by letting the leetspeakers rate the demowhiners comments.

some cant even react on an opinion different to theirs without resorting to severe FUCKFUCKFUCKYO!
2013-12-16 17:51
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quoting Groepaz
the fundamental problem is that people mistake votes as a tool to determine the quality of their productions. and that their importance is blown largely out of proportion.

And as always, since *you* think you know better, you except everyone to think and act like Groepaz. So it's never the system which is flawed, yet of course: it's the majority of the users.

If voting isn't a tool to determine the quality of a production, then please tell me what is its function? Why are there charts on the front page, or anywhere at all? Aren't we constantly encouraging one the other to rank the productions? Aren't the charts important enough so that almost every single person makes a question of prestige to be on the Top 10 on any of the lists? What is it used for if not for measuring potency?

Quoting Groepaz
and they blame the anonymous zealots for it, which by itself indeed makes a huge part of the problem.

The anonymous zealots are blamed only for the constant turmoil they cause. People don't like nameless, insincere, unfair judgement and when it happens they get angry or dissappointed. That's normal human behavior. But, instead of fixing a flawed system or moving it to a bit better, you still want to change others' natural approach to it. That doesn't solves anything. You're aiming a stalemate.

Quoting Groepaz
some cant even react on an opinion different to theirs without resorting to severe FUCKFUCKFUCKYO!

Assuming you mean my impulsive style of discussion? Well whatever. Lack of respect to other people's opinion gives birth to contempt and impatience.
2013-12-16 18:11
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357
Quote:
it's the majority of the users.

wrong. its a vocal minority, no more no less. the majority is fine with it and/or doesnt give a damn.
Quote:
If voting isn't a tool to determine the quality of a production, then please tell me what is its function?

voting generally is an aggregator of opinion, not fact.
Quote:
Aren't the charts important enough so that almost every single person makes a question of prestige to be on the Top 10 on any of the lists?

apparently that is true for a minority who thinks votes matter a lot to them, yes. by far not "every single person" though. most people don't even vote at all.
Quote:
Lack of respect to other people's opinion gives birth to contempt and impatience.

lack of respect to other people's opinion is what spawns this useless voting discussion all the time, correct.
2013-12-16 19:10
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote:
wrong. its a vocal minority, no more no less. the majority is fine with it and/or doesnt give a damn.

Should I remind you once again that the majority once voted against the anonymous voting system?

The interesting thing is, what you call the "vocal minority" is mostly consisting of those people who actually create something on C64 or/and are also active around the site. Your "majority" who is fine with the fuckfest are mostly lurkers and don't contribute with anything. Of course they don't care.

You really want a list the names of those sceners who expressed their aversion towards the anonymous voting during the time? Should I gather a list of the "minority" of those people who in fact release stuff? Seems to me that you'll be really surprised.

Quote:
voting generally is an aggregator of opinion, not fact.

Whatever you call it, it has a quite deep personal impact on those who put out their material on CSDb for the public to see.

Quote:
apparently that is true for a minority who thinks votes matter a lot to them, yes.

Yes. Once again, apparently true for those who actually create something apart from pulling data from left to right in the database and browse the releases.

Quote:
most people don't even vote at all.

And? We're not discussing who votes, but the work that is judged, and the way it's done, if it's done.

Quote:
lack of respect to other people's opinion is what spawns this useless voting discussion all the time, correct.

An anonymous downvote without a single line of explanation is an opinion one should respect since when, and why?
2013-12-16 19:18
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357
Quote:
Should I remind you once again that the majority once voted against the anonymous voting system?

except there never was such poll. and there never was such majority either, it was (and still is) a handful people who were very vocal about it.
Quote:
You really want a list the names of those sceners who expressed their aversion towards the anonymous voting during the time?

yes. i expect a list of at least 700 csdb users (that'd not be the majority right now, but i'd accept it)
Quote:
Once again, apparently true for those who actually create something apart from pulling data from left to right in the database and browse the releases.

"A site dedicated to gathering as much information as possible about the productions, the groups, the sceners, the events and bbs's in the Commodore 64 scene."
note how it doesnt say "massaging the ego of misunderstood artists who actually still create something for the c64 in 2013" - go facebook if thats what you expect.
Quote:
An anonymous downvote without a single line of explanation is an opinion one should respect since when, and why?

what you call downvote is simply a matter of opinion. in this case the opinion is "i dont like it". and people dont have to explain their opinion or taste if they dont want to. its their legitimate right to think "it sucks" and vote accordingly, even if you think its the best thing since sliced bread. and yes, you have to accept it. if you cant - your problem.

to demand an explaination, the rating would have to be the result of collecting fact, not opinion. but it is not.
2013-12-16 20:01
Fungus

Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680
2013-12-16 20:17
jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1578
Quote:
except there never was such poll.

As per usual, your memory is selective. There was, in the beginning of CSDb, I remember it clearly. Ask Perff.

Quote:
yes. i expect a list of at least 700 csdb users (that'd not be the majority right now, but i'd accept it)

So there are 700 active C64 sceners right now? Those who contributed to the last few years' scene activity and whose works are actually judged and affected by the votes?

Quote:
"A site dedicated to gathering as much information as possible about the productions, the groups, the sceners, the events and bbs's in the Commodore 64 scene."
note how it doesnt say "massaging the ego of misunderstood artists who actually still create something for the c64 in 2013" - go facebook if thats what you expect.

Oh come on, CSDb has surpassed that description a long time ago. There are the rankings, the forum, the comments, the PM system and what not. Sceners use it as their main communication platform, not just for gathering and distributing raw data.

And no thanks, I don't want to go to Facebook, as CSDb is the place where I'd like to show my works to people who think alike and share my passion towards the C64. Your solution for every problem seems to be the ignorant "find another place if you don't like the current state of CSDb". No, I want to stay here, and since this is a community which is built in a united effort of those who manage the data and those who create releases which are the building blocks of this site, I and a bunch of others would like a much friendlier/attentive/receptive milieu than it surrounds us currently. But fuck myself for that, right?

Quote:
what you call downvote is simply a matter of opinion. in this case the opinion is "i dont like it". and people dont have to explain their opinion or taste if they dont want to. its their legitimate right to think "it sucks" and vote accordingly, even if you think its the best thing since sliced bread. and yes, you have to accept it. if you cant - your problem.


Yeah sure. I had first hand experience where someone used the voting system for a personal vendetta, and I also know a scener who systematically donwoted an other persons every single release just out of spite. And I'm sure there are a lot of similar cases around, it's really not just about the "I don't like it" approach. In this matter, you seem to live in some kind of a delusion.
2013-12-16 20:27
chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11357
Quote:
So there are 700 active C64 sceners right now? Those who contribute to the last few years' scene activity and whose works are actually judged and affected by the votes?

wat? before you babble about "majority" next time, please define accurately what you mean, and tell a number. how many are your so called "majority" then?
Quote:
Sceners use it as their main communication platform, not just for gathering and distributing raw data.

wait wat? sceners use csdb for communication more than irc or facebook? lol. what was the word again... delusional? last time i checked the forum was almost dead. any other half scene related forum i have visited in the past months is much much MUCH more active. and the most active part of the forum here is the part that is about the db.
Quote:
CSDb is the place where I'd like to show my works to people who think alike and share my passion towards the C64.

i'll remind you next time you are raging about not being able to delete your account =P
Quote:
I had first hand experience where someone used the voting system for a personal vendetta

some people are easily butthurt, yes. they must take the opinion of that individual as highly important to them.
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