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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #247799 : Bowhunter

2024-11-25 08:13

mankeli

Registered: Oct 2010
Posts: 146

Release id #247799 : Bowhunter

"I can honestly say that all these pixels has been carefully selected" - Why say this when it obviously looks like it's not the case?

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2024-11-26 19:53

Peacemaker

Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 275

"Yet you sniff around my underwear, looking how long I’m active, etc. Poor thing."

you make yourself ridiculous.

2024-11-26 20:03

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337

Where are moderators when you need one?

2024-11-26 20:22

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

I just can’t understand it when people casually speak of “animations” in this thread. It feels like they are somehow dragging excellent stuff like Fishbomb demo down in the dirt with this release here. Please don’t compare (1) excellent animations custom made by Extend which are then adjusted, converted and rendered thru Extend’s custom coded C64 anim player with (2) almost worthless express gfx conversions like Bowhunter in which both artwork and conversion code are “outsourced”.

I feel the same about comparing this Bowhunter crap with Jetboy’s exquisite experiments in converter code. There’s just no comparison.

2024-11-26 20:24

Dr. TerrorZ

Registered: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

Much of pin up art including Boris Vallejo, was based on photographed models. And the nostalgic images from my youth, like Bob Wakelin's adverts in game magazines, Atari 2600 cover art, etc. were also "copied" as hell.

But when the source images for these illustrators are revealed, my reaction is more like "oh, interesting, it was done like that", because they often show that there was a creative thinking process going on even before the brushwork even began. Or, in case of some pin up artists, they were quite accomplished photographers in the first place. Or, in Wakelin's case, the result is a kind of a clever collage with some copied parts, the outcome more striking than the original.

Instead, often when a scene gfx copy is revealed, I'm more astonished how little the original was changed, if at all. Sure, pixeling the copy can be difficult and even in some cases applauded, but if it looks like a drag'n'drop work I can't really appreciate it much. It's just doing the last step on top of a longer process, taken from someone else.

2024-11-26 21:31

Jetboy

Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 337

Animation is mentioned here i guess because Animations, AI, Wires, Copies, Converts are all strongly hated here. Hated no matter what kind of those thing they are.

Making animations that are long and interesting fitting into one side of disk, and being able to be read and played in real time is quite a feat. Screaming YUCK ANIMATIONS! is easy, making tools to pack and unpack them is a different story. But you have to try doing it yourself to be able to see how complex it really is. Still, making animations and claiming it is realtime effect is lame, but also long scene tradition... While back in the times, we were youngsters, bold and arrogant, and we were missbehaving, that could have been attributed to young age and not being mature. We were doing lots of stupid things, things that we are not necessarily proud of now. Sins of the youth... Like many people started by ripping others stuff and claiming it was their own. I'm guilty of that (sorry Ian Coog, sorry Polonus), but i was a brat back then, and did not know any better. I hoped we all matured a lot through those decades...

We also should not judge past events with the modern morals. Those were different times, different things were considered status quo. Many things that are no go now, used to be seen as nothing wrong back then.

But now is now. We have different standards, and we should adhere to them.

2024-11-26 21:38

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386

Pff i never stole the raster routine from WoD intro

2024-11-26 22:01

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057

Quote: Animation is mentioned here i guess because Animations, AI, Wires, Copies, Converts are all strongly hated here. Hated no matter what kind of those thing they are.

Making animations that are long and interesting fitting into one side of disk, and being able to be read and played in real time is quite a feat. Screaming YUCK ANIMATIONS! is easy, making tools to pack and unpack them is a different story. But you have to try doing it yourself to be able to see how complex it really is. Still, making animations and claiming it is realtime effect is lame, but also long scene tradition... While back in the times, we were youngsters, bold and arrogant, and we were missbehaving, that could have been attributed to young age and not being mature. We were doing lots of stupid things, things that we are not necessarily proud of now. Sins of the youth... Like many people started by ripping others stuff and claiming it was their own. I'm guilty of that (sorry Ian Coog, sorry Polonus), but i was a brat back then, and did not know any better. I hoped we all matured a lot through those decades...

We also should not judge past events with the modern morals. Those were different times, different things were considered status quo. Many things that are no go now, used to be seen as nothing wrong back then.

But now is now. We have different standards, and we should adhere to them.

I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

2024-11-27 05:17

Hate Bush

Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465

Quote: Quote:
Its no less hard or trivial than making converted GFX. Been there done that.

I beg to differ. Sure, it’s trivial to you. But still you had to be able to read at least half page of text and have basic understanding of how things work. Even if we’re talking about converting MIDI to SID notes. Dragging a found jpeg in whatever resolution into a converter and pushing a button to save out a C64 executable is a whole different level of trivial I think. But that’s offtopic. Huh? Wait, what exactly is the topic?

should be the topic. roughly a half of new music releases is covers nowadays. if they are made by ear, then it's comparable to using reference, but pixeling by hand. if they are based on existing easy-to-import transcriptions, then it's more like converting. imho. would like to hear opinions on that, but no one raises the subject - publicly! - and i'm too shy to begin ;)

2024-11-27 06:32

Hein

Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954

Quote: should be the topic. roughly a half of new music releases is covers nowadays. if they are made by ear, then it's comparable to using reference, but pixeling by hand. if they are based on existing easy-to-import transcriptions, then it's more like converting. imho. would like to hear opinions on that, but no one raises the subject - publicly! - and i'm too shy to begin ;)

Indeed a good comparison. Though it's less of a problem for music compos than gfx compos, it seems. As in, covers are usually explicitly not allowed.

2024-11-27 08:55

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285

I have a lifelong interest in artistic processes. I also "suffer from" rekindled interest in C64 demoscene. Here's what I found to be the case. Every artistic movement, every artistic subculture starts out by copying what came before it. Then, with time, it grows into finding its own authentic voice. Same goes for individual authors out on their personal artistic journeys. You sort of "fake it until you make it". The C64 demoscene in 2024 is ripe, it's a fully formed adult. It already "made it". Following suggestions that it should regress to its past immature, outgrown ways, that it should continue to "fake it" even after it already, quite painfully, "made it", would be corrosive to its health, as this kind of growth retarding cramps, these calls for regression, virtually always are.