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Forums > C64 Composing > Ideas for a NEW TRACKER

2009-09-06 18:33

Hermit

Registered: May 2008
Posts: 208

Ideas for a NEW TRACKER

Hi, Guyz

I have the same problem as others have nowadays in this fast industrial world: Not too much of FreeTime...
I only would like to compose SID music, leave the programming & gfx.
Only one problem is still in my way: Need for a reliable, full featured music editor.

There are a lot of great tools, I think the best are: XSID, SDI, JCH, SID-Factory, DMC5, Goattracker, (BullSID coming?)

I made a lot of comparisons among them, and Goattracker get the most point in regards of functionality (but not in all).
I like the tracker, but don't like emulated sound. Through
PC64 cable or HardSID you can use real SID, but just under the buggy Windows. I don't know about Linux drivers for these. And don't want hangs/losses anymore while composing.
(BTW I had issue with GT2 in Linux, I couldn't save, maybe the Linux wasn't configured well or the GT2 package was compiled wrong...). A MAC is expensive for me, and I even can't say that MACOSx is as safe as C64..

There are some missing functions from the native C64 trackers, first of all, e.g. a simple function: saving an instrument, that you may made for an hour or so...
(DMC has this function if I know well.)

Other important things that are useful: keyjazz (hear note when typing), instrument-detune, MMC/IDE64 compatibility, multispeed, mute/solo tracks, definable HR-type & timer for all instruments....
Most of even the best trackers lacks one or more of these functions. Some have special keymappings to learn..

All in all, I decided to spend my freetime for writing a native C64 tracker that may have everything that a SID-composer needs.

Tha player routine is in half way, an now this is the point when you can come up with ideas your actual tracker is lacking.
Then in this forum we can discuss if it's possible and useful, and logical, etc...

E.g. let me to share my feature-ideas and the actual plans for the player and editor. These are not the usual features (as e.g. funktempo) but some special things:

PLAYER:
-------
-The player will handle the average maximums, 32 subtunes,
255 long orderlists, max.127 of 255 long patterns, 32 instruments.

-The patterns will basically contain only the notes, and
Instruments+FX-es+values only stored if they're there
(this way we have 4 columns per track in memory virtually,
the player can handle this format already.)

-Orderlists will contain data in similar way, so we have
a 2nd 'virtual' column for
transpose/repeat/jump/end and SUBTUNE-CHANGE commands

-I will implement 'Keyboard-track' command as I did in my
3SID tracker. Cutoff freq. can depend on note-pitch..

-Will try to logarythmize the Pulsewidth & Cutoff freq..
sweeps, making bass-filtering more detailed, and maybe
same table could be used for calculated vibrato/slide.

-There will be wavetable/pw/ctf programs/pointers also for
GATE-off, not only for note-on...

-Some compression could be achieved with signing long empty
places (zeros) with a number...

-Should we still use WF/PW/FI/HR tables, or own tables for
every instruments? (At least from editor view.)

EDITOR:
-INSTRUMENT SAVE function
-MMC64 & IDE64 compatibility (e.g. Sid Factory / SDI have)
-Waveform-displayer for instrument editor, filter/PW bars..
-Any ideas to make arpeggios easier? e.g. note based arps.
-Unused player code/pattern/instrument optimization (GT2)
-Possibility to save directly into SID format (as GT2 can)
-High resolution/interlaced characters or using borders to
have more columns and rows..
-Rewind-back/ loop-play function like in my 3SID tracker
-Memory usage displayer bar / counter / out of memo sign..
-Orderlist: long patterns' numbers displayed longer, so no skew when playing...
-Some help for ringmodulation (sign tracks, calculate f1+f2)
....

As you could see, these would be sophisticated features that could make SID-composing easier...and IMO, they're realizable, it's only question of time ...

Tell me bravely, if you have anything new to mention...

Hermit Software HungaryHermit Software Hungary

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2009-09-06 21:32

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

If at all possible, more than 32 instruments would be preferable.

2009-09-07 08:08

Adam

Registered: Jul 2009
Posts: 323

I agree with Cadaver - More instruments the better!! Thou, What would be very nice for any new SID tracker for the C64 or PC would be 'MIDI' keyboard support. I have a MIDI keyboard and long to use it for constructing SIDs. VICE supports MIDI pretty well IMHO so I guess it's a practical idea to suggest - you'd make a lot of SID musicians very happy id imagine if you guys included this type of support ;)

2009-09-07 09:32

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Adam: SDI 3 - just wait for it..

2009-09-07 10:01

booker

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334

cadaver: Why do you need 32 instruments? 8-)

2009-09-07 11:19

cadaver

Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160

I've probably never come even close to 32 myself (on any editor I've used), but it's somehow anxiety-inducing to know you can run out of instruments by eg. creating lots of chord arpeggio variations of the same instrument. You can "cheat" the limit by putting a wavepointer-change command to each note (if supported), but then the tune will probably pack worse.

32 is often used as a limit if instruments are stored into a 256 byte table, 8 sequential bytes per instrument. But IMO that's inflexible: sometimes you might need more parameters, sometimes less (especially if player code will be dynamically linked to include/exclude certain features as needed)

2009-09-07 11:40

Kristian

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 126

Quote: Adam: SDI 3 - just wait for it..

Yeah. I was testing it over at GRG's place the other day. Very neat stuff!

2009-09-07 12:47

Linus

Registered: Jun 2004
Posts: 639

@Cadaver: I learned to live with a max of 32 instruments by using wavetable pointers. What bugs me more is the 'small' wavetable :) One of the reasons I dropped multispeed :)

2009-09-07 12:53

GT
Account closed

Registered: Sep 2008
Posts: 308

Amazing that people don't know how powerful the SDI editor is. You can attach just ONE instrument if you want, to all the arpeggio variations. And for arpeggio, you can use instruments $20-$2F, if you'd like, and leave $00-$1F ready for the sequencer only. Packer will take care of those unused, and clean it all up. Regarding multispeed, you can delay the arpeggios. So totally in SDI, you have $2F instruments, and you can create $1F arpeggios besides this. You can also blend arpeggio table with wavetable. And this was allready done in 1992 in GT-Editor, happy composing. :-)

2009-09-07 13:16

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

I have squeezed 2 full instrument sets into SDI 2.0

1st is pop music soundset that i tweak for every tune
2nd is orchestra soundset that i also tweak for every tune

Both sets use all sounds, 32 - and i have 12 general arp programs, that cover most, and which i tweak.

In the 6x soundset i use, i have only reached byte $E4, so still a few bytes left for more wavetable..

Although i have never used it, the repeat wavetable section command is usefull - can save lots of space.

2009-09-07 14:11

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11366

and all that without knobs and sliders!

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