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Forums > CSDb Entries > Release id #218343 : E2IRA

2022-08-28 09:06

wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 505

Release id #218343 : E2IRA

The highest level of admiration is imitation ;)
Joker guys made our day at Xenium with this one!
https://youtu.be/kl8dH7ooRyU

... 107 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2023-03-29 15:11

4gentE

Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 119

@Oswald :
True. You’re right. I tap out.

2023-03-29 15:14

wacek

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 505

Quoting Oswald

There are pictures released with workstages all the time, there was that website "art that ISNT"

You cannot call it A STANDARD until the time it is a requirement when submitting works for party compos, and the fact is that the biggest C64 parties - X, Data etc - are not requiring this. So in fact, this is not a standard. On the contrary, it is more and more accepted that reference pictures are used. You cannot pretend anything else is happening. More, with the advent of AI, you will no more trace anything back to publicly available references.

We have not moved from 90s standards, if anything - we moved in the other direction.

Quote:

While on the code side we are moving away from expecting skill involved to doesnt matter how it is done ?

It used to be a standard to not reuse code in subsequent demos, so... where are we with that standard today? Did we move forward or backwards? Because I did point the reuse of code if one of the demos some years ago, do you remember the lynching that happened as a result? Not of the coder who did it, but me ;)
And again, you have personally defined what is code that requires skill (realtime), and what code does not require skill (anything that has anything to do with frames). And you are trying to impose that on others.
For me the skill is in making something new and fresh. Making the same twisters, scrollers, they are not worth more only because they are realtime, even if 90% of code to do them is available to copy from public sources. That is an example of a different viewpoint on this. The difference is I am not trying to impose my view on you as A FUCKING SCENE STANDARD.

2023-03-29 15:55

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154

one of the best threads for a while, keep it coming

2023-03-29 16:16

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5032

Quote: Quoting Oswald
There are pictures released with workstages all the time, there was that website "art that ISNT"

You cannot call it A STANDARD until the time it is a requirement when submitting works for party compos, and the fact is that the biggest C64 parties - X, Data etc - are not requiring this. So in fact, this is not a standard. On the contrary, it is more and more accepted that reference pictures are used. You cannot pretend anything else is happening. More, with the advent of AI, you will no more trace anything back to publicly available references.

We have not moved from 90s standards, if anything - we moved in the other direction.

Quote:
While on the code side we are moving away from expecting skill involved to doesnt matter how it is done ?

It used to be a standard to not reuse code in subsequent demos, so... where are we with that standard today? Did we move forward or backwards? Because I did point the reuse of code if one of the demos some years ago, do you remember the lynching that happened as a result? Not of the coder who did it, but me ;)
And again, you have personally defined what is code that requires skill (realtime), and what code does not require skill (anything that has anything to do with frames). And you are trying to impose that on others.
For me the skill is in making something new and fresh. Making the same twisters, scrollers, they are not worth more only because they are realtime, even if 90% of code to do them is available to copy from public sources. That is an example of a different viewpoint on this. The difference is I am not trying to impose my view on you as A FUCKING SCENE STANDARD.

What should I call it then, that in the scene original artwork is rated higher? Even so much so, that pixel artists show workstages for proof. Lets call it Fumbla! :)

Compos not requiring workstages doesnt disproove this, proof is workstages are uploaded many many times, without any rule requiring to do so.

"We have not moved from 90s standards, if anything - we moved in the other direction."

Strongly disagree, in 90s copying gfxers were held in high regards, not today, see above, workstages.

Effect reuse is still lame imho.

"Making the same twisters, scrollers, they are not worth more only because they are realtime"

totally boring, please dont make them realtime or not, just stop :D

"The difference is I am not trying to impose my view on you as A FUCKING SCENE STANDARD."

I am not trying to impose it on you either, ES2RA still an awesome demo in my view, only except 9 out of 10 in my eyes TECHNICALLY (code wise) it falls down to 7 knowing about the anims.

I'm not trying to lead here an ES2RA holocaust, its just triggers me, that coding needs the biggest investment time and brain wise, and by many its viewed "doesnt matter how it is done", oh okay then lets wire and retouch pictures too, doesnt matter right? :)

2023-03-29 16:19

Oswald

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5032

Quote: @Oswald :
True. You’re right. I tap out.

just for the record, reverse engineering takes often as much or more effort as coding the effect itself, some months ago I spent days figuring out how some koala stretcher works.

2023-03-29 16:23

chatGPZ

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154

Quote:

totally boring, please dont make them realtime or not, just stop :D

I feel like that about the static anim+colorcycle type of effects. YAWN. No its not getting any less boring with open border and samples either :)

2023-03-29 17:49

ChristopherJam

Registered: Aug 2004
Posts: 1383

fond memories of getting a standing ovation for the character animation part in Effluvium back in the day

2023-03-29 18:02

Joe

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 224

This does remind me of some of the "demo-fx" me and Ed did several years ago. For one I wanted that butterfly in "A quoi ca sert?" to animate,
I guess someone could have mapped vectors with the graphics perhaps doing it realtime, but at the time we had no knowledge of such things and
made that and the blur/out things for the intro load in "Aqua" and of course the massive animation-work for the unfinished demo back then, like
"last dance" from Encyclopedie Geometrique.

I think what inspired us to work together and in this special style was Black Mail, Modern Arts, T'Pau and Asphyxia to mention just a few groups
which still inspired in the late 90:ies, early 00:s. During the 00:ies what has really inspired myself is really the work from Wacek, Algorithm
among many more (did anyone mention Atlantis? Focus? Did anyone mention RedCrab/ Vanja), and as mentioned: The colorcycling works from Bob/Censor Design
which has been developed in so many fantastic ways it's still a powerful source. I think people can just lay down the axes and simply start doing
demos and show what will be canon in the future it will most probably both include own-made animations and real-time effects and no one will know
the difference at a party ;D

Well, they would know we don't want to see another keftale looking all-border plasma anymore, eventhought it's better than the one before, that's one thing for certain.

2023-03-29 18:27

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4621

In the end: isn't it about what you can see and experience on a C64?

2023-03-29 18:30

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036

Quoting Joe

Well, they would know we don't want to see another keftale looking all-border plasma anymore, eventhought it's better than the one before, that's one thing for certain.

SinDiKat even made a (ZX Spectrum) demo about it. Released at this year's Forever Party.

Live recording (you can find other versions on Youtube but this has that authentic party feel with laugh tracks ;-):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmU-sk3gw0k