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Merman
Registered: Dec 2002
Posts: 140 |
Transparent votes?
There's been a lot of "discussion" in the one-liner box about whether voting should be transparent, i.e. you can see who voted (and their vote's value).
I feel that things should stay as they are, just the number of votes and "weighted" vote shown for each entry. That would save all the arguments "why did you vote low for me?" or "he/she is a lamer, they voted low for me/my release"
What do others think? |
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Hurrican
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 10 |
Some statistical suggestion to solve the problem of downvotes:
Just don't count the extremest 10% of all votes when creating the weighed average.
Example...
Demo A got the following votes:
10: 2x
9: 1x
8: 12x
7: 30x
6: 16x
5: 8x
4: 5x
3: 2x
2: 0x
1: 4x
That's 80 votes in total. Weighed average would be 501/80=6,26.
If you eleminate the 10% extremest votes (that means the 5% best and the 5% worst), you get a new list of (72) votes:
10: 0x
9: 0x
8: 11x
7: 30x
6: 16x
5: 8x
4: 5x
3: 2x
2: 0x
1: 0x
Weighed average now is 460/72=6,39.
Voila, downvoting eliminated.
OK, the figures could have been more extreme, but you get the point... ;-)
CU,
Hurrican |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3048 |
Other solution than just simple non-anonymous voting is just a hack. It's like fighting with spam, it won't help you to get rid of scam.
It won't help to ged rid of fake accounts.
Transaparency and non-anonymity is the best regulation of human behaviour.
I'm for transparency. Anyone can erase their votes if they don't feel like showing their opinion. |
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Hurrican
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 10 |
I disagree. What's your aim?
If you want to stop downvoting having influence on the rankings, then think about my approach.
If you want to stop people using fake-accounts, then try implementing some kind of verification (check E-Mail, log IP's and delete account that regulary log in using the same IP, etc.).
If you just want to know who voted what, then say so. If you don't, then a simple no is not the appropriate answer for a complex question.
Taking away anonymity might stop unwanted behaviour. But it may also end up stopping WANTED behaviour, too (e.g. people who don't show their name when voting now, will probably stop voting once and for all). Are you willing to take that risk?
I say: Before you do that, try other approches, that don't have negative side-effects. If they don't work, one can still try the hard way. |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
Quote: I disagree. What's your aim?
If you want to stop downvoting having influence on the rankings, then think about my approach.
If you want to stop people using fake-accounts, then try implementing some kind of verification (check E-Mail, log IP's and delete account that regulary log in using the same IP, etc.).
If you just want to know who voted what, then say so. If you don't, then a simple no is not the appropriate answer for a complex question.
Taking away anonymity might stop unwanted behaviour. But it may also end up stopping WANTED behaviour, too (e.g. people who don't show their name when voting now, will probably stop voting once and for all). Are you willing to take that risk?
I say: Before you do that, try other approches, that don't have negative side-effects. If they don't work, one can still try the hard way.
actually I dont fucking care if someone doesn't vote because he has to show his name. If you are not man/woman enough to stay to what you think about a release then simply don't vote at all. all this mathcrap just complicates the whole shit. there will always be shitheads abusing the system at max. I am really ashamed to see top groups treated like shit because some noobs downvote them just to see their super-elite-combo in front. get rid of anonymous or get rid of voting... FULLSTOP |
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Twoflower
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434 |
I fully agree with Slator on this one.
Make the voting transparent or remove it. Period. The wellknown refurbishing by Secret Man would have proven an excellent occation to either remove or remake the system. Now, this wasn't the case. I believe it'd would give more to remove the anonymous voting than it'd give to keep it as it is. If some wanted behaviour (=chicken voting) would be outwiped, so what? |
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Hurrican
Registered: Oct 2003
Posts: 10 |
@Slator:
Explicit language will not make the situation any better.
In my opinion, the whole point in voting is to get as many votes as possible. If a mechanism is implemented that scares away a great number of voters, voting should be disabled completly. Else you'll never get a decent result.
At least on that point I agree.
BTW: If the wish to stay anonymous is "not man/woman enough", then what do you think of crypting e-mails or sealing envelopes? |
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Slator
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 274 |
Quote: @Slator:
Explicit language will not make the situation any better.
In my opinion, the whole point in voting is to get as many votes as possible. If a mechanism is implemented that scares away a great number of voters, voting should be disabled completly. Else you'll never get a decent result.
At least on that point I agree.
BTW: If the wish to stay anonymous is "not man/woman enough", then what do you think of crypting e-mails or sealing envelopes?
the reason why I used that kind of language is very simple, please check when there has been the first step towards a fair solution on voting. since then not much more than bla bla was the result. there have been many good ideas in endless posts but that doesnt help much.
voting in such a place here I do not compare to my personal rights, sorry.
this ain't fort knox but more goes towards planet kiddie |
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Perff
Administrator
Posts: 1677 |
I want to get one thing straight here.
The reason why you want transparent votes is:
1. To avoid fake votes.
2. To see who voted what.
If it's the first I think I have done everything I can to avoid this in any case. I implemented a 'filter' which should eleminate any "extreme" votes. I know it's not 100% but I have spent a LOT of time on it, and if you see on Crest's entry Crest and calculate the normal average it is 8.18, but the calculated average is in fact 9 because of my 'filter'.
If it's the second I don't think that is reason enough. I must admit that I belive in anonymous voting.
Yes - it could help on detecting fake accounts, but also here we have some systems to help us with that. One major thing which is missing in CSDb, and that is man-power.
Some time ago I anounced for someone to help the development of CSDb, and that also includes maintaining the user-database and pick out fake accounts.
Anyone want to spend some hours doing such are welcome to contact me. :)
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TDJ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1879 |
Perff, since the fact that all low votes are *always* anonymous doesn't seem to mean anything to you, I'd like to know if you could at least make it possible for people to brand their groups and productions 'non-votable'. Because I don't want to be part of a system that is so wrong anymore. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
I would like to be able to vote without people knowing I done so. That being said - I don't vote.
All low votes are anonymous? I don't think Puterman is anonymous (I only noticed a 3 for one of my things he voted, not meaning to single him out). It doesn't worry me.
We don't fully know how many fake accounts are still active. All it takes is a group of mates to get together and plan their votes to maximise their effect and try to get around the filters. They give good votes to some good productions but share it around.
No matter what system is in place there could be abuse. I'm happy to leave it as it is. Maybe Perff can use it to practice some statistical ideas.
If it was all transparent there may be cases where people get upset and take harass the low voter or speak badly about them. Maybe even think it's a personal attack, not a release attack. People know what they like.
Maybe we could use some sort of biometric identification for all votes... just being silly.
Those who are happy to show what they have voted then well done. People should look at the votes and make their own mine up. Disregard the anonymous votes and take notice of the transparent votes or... |
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