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Knight Rider
Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 116 |
Event id #3294 : X-2024
I was having a discussion with a few guys over beers in X'2023 and the compos. I was telling about my days as OR8 pilot in the RC world where we had junior, hobby and pro categories for the races.
To make it abit more motivational the people/groups who aren't 20 members strong each with 30+ years of demo coding experience it might be worth while considering other options ?
eg. some of the ideas we discussed:
. Having a pro (ie previous winner category) and hobby section so that contributors are compared to peers of similar experience
. Splitting the voting/ranking for 1 filers from multi disk entries
. Newcomer award for those individuals or teams who never submitted to X before |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 575 |
Quote: Quoting RaistlinIRQ loaders are one problem. How many used Bitbreaker loader this time? Quite a few I believe..? So? What's your point? Why is this a problem? :)
I’m not sure what the argument is now :-)
I don’t want coders working on more than one demo, of course, but it can’t be policed, especially in the age of crediting loaders :-)
The other problem with only allowing a coder to work on one thing: somebody could rip code from the 50 “top” coders.. post a demo with these ripped parts in, sending it to Burglar the very minute that submissions are open. Does this then succeed in disallowing any further demos from those 50 people?
As I say.. I wish people would stop trying to change the rules… there’s usually an ulterior motive ;p |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 575 |
That said, 4-side demos should be retrospectively banned from X ;-) .. that would give us X2023 with our 2 side demo ;p
We did that for you by the way, Krill :-) .. we -were- listening to you during the E2ira anim arguments where you suggested we could still compress my heavily unrolled code :-) (and we did! Well, Sparta did mostly..) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2855 |
Quoting RaistlinI’m not sure what the argument is now :-) Me neither. Just wondering why the same loader used in competing demos would be a problem.
Quoting RaistlinI don’t want coders working on more than one demo, of course When was that ever an actual concern in a given demo compo? Same graphician or musician featured in competing demos, or a compopic also being used in a demo, otoh...
Still. It's the product that counts first and foremost.
Quoting Raistlinespecially in the age of crediting loaders :-) That age started in the mid-late 1990s or so? And still, why is that a problem? :)
Quoting RaistlinThe other problem with only allowing a coder to work on one thing: somebody could rip code from the 50 “top” coders.. post a demo with these ripped parts in, sending it to Burglar the very minute that submissions are open. Does this then succeed in disallowing any further demos from those 50 people? Quite a contrived example. And that code would have to be previously unreleased, "stolen" from workdisks or something, in order to satisfy the constraints.
Quoting RaistlinWe did that for you by the way, Krill :-) .. we -were- listening to you during the E2ira anim arguments where you suggested we could still compress my heavily unrolled code :-) (and we did! Well, Sparta did mostly..) If it was done for anybody or anything, then yourselves and your egos (and not for me, who merely pointed out some things). =) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5029 |
lol around 96-97 I have used dasheele loader ripped from smash without credit. had a nice debugging session with void, turn disk recognizer routine didnt work, because I have size optimised it away :D |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2855 |
Quoting Oswaldlol around 96-97 I have used dasheele loader ripped from smash without credit. had a nice debugging session with void, turn disk recognizer routine didnt work, because I have size optimised it away :D That loader was infamous for being coded like a raster routine. Exact to the cycle - bad idea when dealing with physical moving parts. =) |
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Copyfault
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 467 |
Quoting BurglarFunny thread this, people trying to change the rules so they can win. Not by merit, but by adding restrictions for our best coders, graphicians and musicians. The answer is no :)
Mega+1
The compos at X worked fine, why even think about changing the rules?
Quoting BurglarCollaboration is key in the demo-scene, something that should be encouraged and cherished.
What many of you are forgetting is that this was the first X after 5 years, it's only logical that so many sceners and groups went all-out, resulting in the biggest and best X compo ever. Yes it was overwhelming, yes beating any of the top 10 will be impossible for most, yes, this was X :)
I second everything you stated, Burglar, besides...
Quoting BurglarSince we are throwing another one in less than a year, all of the suggested restrictions are irrelevant: there simply is not enough time for any group to deliver the same huge size and quality of demos.
Well... what about the groups that didn't show up this year? They might blast everyone away due to the 5 1/2 year dev time ;) Frankly spoken: I wouldn't really mind and let me get blasted away happily *bigsmile* |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5029 |
Quote: Quoting Oswaldlol around 96-97 I have used dasheele loader ripped from smash without credit. had a nice debugging session with void, turn disk recognizer routine didnt work, because I have size optimised it away :D That loader was infamous for being coded like a raster routine. Exact to the cycle - bad idea when dealing with physical moving parts. =)
yeah, I didnt know how to code loaders, but I saw it avoids badlines, and I have found out it doesnt like sprites either :) but it worked and was much faster than something else I used earlier, you went with what you got :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2855 |
Quoting Copyfaultthe first X after 5 years [...] They might blast everyone away due to the 5 1/2 year dev time ;) Indeed. I'd like to add that in reality, the effective time was a bit shorter, though, as probably everybody did have to deal with a bit of motivational problems during those years, amounting to a few months at least. But that's just details. =) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2855 |
Quoting Oswaldyeah, I didnt know how to code loaders, but I saw it avoids badlines, and I have found out it doesnt like sprites either :) but it worked and was much faster than something else I used earlier, you went with what you got :) I meant the original loader, not your derivative of it. =) So no offence to your loader-coding skills or lack thereof. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5029 |
Quote: Quoting Oswaldyeah, I didnt know how to code loaders, but I saw it avoids badlines, and I have found out it doesnt like sprites either :) but it worked and was much faster than something else I used earlier, you went with what you got :) I meant the original loader, not your derivative of it. =) So no offence to your loader-coding skills or lack thereof.
absolutely no offence taken :) I dont know what you mean by my derivative, I've simply binary ripped it from a smash demo, no changes from my side on it, and yes I have realized it not very sophisticated, but I was yet to see a really good loader in those times. I accepted it as is with the shortcomings, as one does with new things when he doesnt know better. |
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