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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 513 |
Release id #218343 : E2IRA
User Comment
Submitted by Mojzesh [PM] on 27 July 2022
@wacek Before I left arise (a year ago), the only language on PC you knew at that time was PC Basic. Your poor coding skills and the absence of own demosystem developed solely by arise (it was all spaghetti code) was one of the key points that made me leave your group (among several others). It’s clear to me - especially by judging your answer to this - that you didn’t write the compressor yourself (don’t lie, I know you well enough) … To change my mind, just prove it (there are lots of ways to prove it without the need to reveal the source code).
And do you finally know in 2022 how many CPU cycles are eaten by a given number of sprites, you so-called ‘brilliant coder’?
Ps. You were using the same compressor in the past and you told me so yourself back then you didn’t write it :D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 659 |
Yeah, if a tool is a big part of a demo, it should get a decent credit. A little startup anim, even, like we did for Sparkle in Memento Mori :-)
(Nb. I’m replying to Krill here for those who didn’t figure it out.. to tie in with the “why are there IRQ loader idents now?” thread from a month or so ago) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2219 |
Some countenance, please.
Stick to arguments and discussing facts and avoid personal fight in public and watch your language, too.
If this is getting too nasty, it will be closed. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting RaistlinYeah, if a tool is a big part of a demo, it should get a decent credit. A little startup anim, even, like we did for Sparkle in Memento Mori :-)
(Nb. I’m replying to Krill here for those who didn’t figure it out.. to tie in with the “why are there IRQ loader idents now?” thread from a month or so ago) Nice try. =)
Anyways, i have it on good authority that there was substantial post-processing/tweaking/re-encoding of CSAM output.
So while an essential tool for the demo, it did not provide a simple automagical press-button-be-done process at all. |
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Mojzesh
Registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 12 |
@krill Except for a fact that this demo is trying to cheat viewers by tricking them to think that most of the effects are calculated in realtime (which I must agree it would be a huge achievement if it was true, but unfortunately it is still just an animation). So if you can swallow that, then it’s your business. For me (and I guess other good C64 coders too) a demo was always a way of demonstrating the power of the machine on which it’s running on, and not the power of the machine where it was precalculated. Scene is full of people with very blurred knowledge of assembly language and what is really achievable and what is not. This demo is not an huge achievement as people think it is. (You can precalc much better things on PC, but what’s the point of this?) What should then the proper coders of realtime effects do now, leave the scene? |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1335 |
@Mojzesh
1. 1MHz is not a lot of horse power so you adjust for it, whatever it takes. Especially C64 is definitely the weakest CPU among all 8bits but makes up for it thanks to brilliant and efficient VIC-II.
2. demo is not only code and coder's splendor ;) IMHO, it's a battle of ideas first of all. Both math and animations are great playfield for ideas. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting Mojzesh@krill Except for a fact that this demo is trying to cheat viewers by tricking them to think that most of the effects are calculated in realtime (which I must agree it would be a huge achievement if it was true, but unfortunately it is still just an animation). So if you can swallow that, then it’s your business. That there is at most one degree of freedom (point on the timeline) is pretty obvious from the start, and the animation point is driven home when the TWO disk-change requests appear all too soon. =)
But to me, this demo's strength isn't real-time calculation, but a fresh style of presentation and a catchy soundtrack. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting JammerEspecially C64 is definitely the weakest CPU among all 8bits Debatable. C-16/Plus4's CPU runs at 0.88 MHz most of the time, when the raster beam is in the visible area (not in the border), plus there are two badlines in a char row, and no sprites, of course. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
The best advice is probably not to sell prefabricated stuff pretending to be hand-made and everyone will be fine. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2969 |
Quoting F7sus4The best advice is probably not to sell prefabricated stuff pretending to be hand-made and everyone will be fine. What are you referring to, specifically? |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 117 |
Quoting MojzeshExcept for a fact that this demo is trying to cheat viewers by tricking them to think that most of the effects are calculated in realtime
I do see where Mojzesh is coming from with this one. It's already an established standard in C64 demos to show off coders' skills with rotating cubes (and bonus effects) as much as how many dots are there rotating on a screen etc.
E2IRA utilizes this trend to show something similar which isn't calculated real-time (not just once, but here quite obviously). Was this part made intentionally to trick the audience? Perhaps. Maybe. We may argue about the motivations, but the controversy is there for a reason. It kinda reminds me of something:
Jodee Berry expected a brand new Toyota after winning a contest, but was presented with a toy Yoda instead.
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