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2009-02-08 21:57

Sequencer
Account closed

Registered: Feb 2009
Posts: 13

What editors are PPL using now?

Hey. So I haven't coded a chiptune properly for C-64 since the mid 90s (I've used a hardsid in midi, a sidstation, and (gasp) quadrasid emulation but all mainly in recorded work). But now I am thinking it would be fun to make some new tracks, and some old friends are starting to ask me for them...

So, the last time I really did anything it was in JCH Editor (v17-19 range, I think... it is all foggy now). I'm curious to hear what people are using now and what enhancements have been made. I'm sorry if this is a redundant topic somewhere else --

I've dabbled with GoatTracker. Found it a bit off. But one thing I did like, that wasn't present in JCH editor was the sort of ability to vastly modify the instrument within the pattern data. For example, changing filter mode/cutoff/resonance within the voices vs. having to make one or several sweeping instrument definitions.

I had messed a little bit with multi-speed editing (x3), which at the time was a pain.

I'm also pretty interested in some of what has happened with C-64 + sample playback. I saw an impressive demo of something like a MOD or XM playing on C64, and then being post processed through the filter.

Anyway, curious to hear what people are using and why.

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2009-02-18 16:02

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Hey Jeffobabe, "Da Da Da" with Trio, was a HUUUUUGE hit!!

2009-02-18 16:05

Soren

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547

rambones: you were 40 back then aswell? :-)

2009-02-18 17:12

Stainless Steel

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966

FIGHT!!

2009-02-18 19:03

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

this is not fair, since jeff is a famous name, because in dynasty tv series there is a jeff colby!

2009-02-18 19:07

Soren

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547

well, afaik "jeff" is more often used as a gayname than "rambones" is... so it's a loose-loose situation...

2009-02-18 20:56

Stainless Steel

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 966

BullSid! Now exclusivley featuring, Jeff's DEEP ASS VIBRATO!

Quoting rambones

jeff colby

Wasnt that a gay porn movie actor ?

2009-02-18 21:36

goto80

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 138

no, that's jeff stryker

2009-02-18 21:54

SIDWAVE
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238

Quote: no, that's jeff stryker

How.... do you know this ? :)

2009-03-18 17:24

booker

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 334

Quote: Jan I love my little DMC :) It's not easy to use,but once you know how to work on it you can compose like on any other tracker.

Looking after all those years I've spend with DMC I can tell just one thing: any decent tracker, like JCH or SDI is way better for editing than DMC. I would go for SDI these days (v2 now available), as JCH or DMC are not being developed for ages. SID Factory has a complicated style of sound editing, and Jeff will finish his editor probably in next century anyway :)

Actually I was never using DMC in the proper DUR. way. I used DUR style only to compress the tune size, because if you use DMC with a tracker-style patterns (giving a lot of spaces between the notes) then the tune grows really rapidly. Also the idea you can see what's going on at all channels at once is very convenient. Much convenient than in DUR. But that's aparently a matter of the taste ;)

The pattern sequencer is a clever idea in DMC also easy switching between the subtunes is cool, so you can prepare bits and then just mix stuff up in the main tune.

As to technical capabilities for sounds, you can do the same things with trackers like JCH,SDI,SID Factory anyway. And you can filter only one channel with DMC :-) And you have static vibrato in the instrument, and there's no separate arppegio table so you have to make extra instruments for arppegios, and each pattern can have a different size so you have to always pay attention to that, and the commands before the notes or patterns can make you a headache, and you don't see what's played, and sometimes packed tune sounds different from what you do in the editor, and legato functions weird, and if you have one empty pattern then after saving you'll loose all other patters which are after it (same for saved tune), and sometimes it hangs after displayng the disk directory, and sometimes it detunes the arrpegios for some reason, and by default it's one note down on each channel so you have to start your tune with TR+01 (unless you're PRI or Syndrom who somehow are able to use eg. D note displayed even if it's really C#) and and and....and you have to love it to use it :)

2009-03-18 20:27

Soren

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 547

trackers usually compress to "duration" style

like:

I01 c-4
- +++
- +++
- +++

that's 4 tracker steps, which would usually not take more than 3 bytes after packing. :-)
When a tune sounds different after packing, it can easily be due to the player NOT having a sid-buffer, which means there's a different amount of cycles between storing values to sid registers, BEFORE and AFTER packing.
I'd say SDI and a few of the newer editors offer some extra things that you don't have in DMC.
Calculated finetune for each instrument, or use it in an instrument subtable to do special shaped vibratos and such,
which you can also do along with other things, changing filtertypes, resonance during a sound, changing ADSR during a sound.
Much more flexible system for defining hard- and soft- restarts.
all these extra things helps the composer to make his music sound different from others, or exactly the same, if you are interested in replicating other people's tunes. :-)

I bet Geir Tjelta could tell you more good things about SDI than I can, it's a damn powerfull player and editor - But I have chosen to use my own players and editors.

Bullsid doesn't have an arpeggio table, but you can somewhat easy use the same sound to do different arpeggios with.

Booker: And I will finish BullSID some day, but still, everyone wants customized editors... So simply code your own
and make it JUST like you want a c64 music editor to be.
:-)