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JAC
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 56 |
WUDSN IDE: The free integrated 6502 development plugin for Eclipse
Hello,
I start a new thread here because now the first "C64 ready" version 1.6.1 of WUDSN IDE which supports KickAss is out and available for you. I will link this thread as the C64 feeback thread on my site where you can also for all existing manuals, details and FAQ. I will also not copy all news and features here today, you can find them on www.wudsn.com.
For those who don't know the IDE yet, I recommend the video tutorials in youtube.
Have fun, Peter/JAC!
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 933 |
Great, maybe this is the moment to change my workspace from Tass/Crimson to KickAss/WUDSN. I will check the tutorials later today and try to set up a proper working environment, even though it might conflict the low productivity terms of Vision and Focus. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
then you should switch your workflow "to the better" more often, best way to kill all productivity afterall :o) |
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PopMilo
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 145 |
Made a switch a year ago, never looked back :)
Thanks for new version JAC!
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JAC
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 56 |
I have uploaded 1.6.2 with a fix for a problem which can cause lockups when "." is typed. Please update and notify me if the problem still persists. |
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Barbarossa
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 31 |
When I found this thread, I thought this is what I need. So I decided to download the package and give it a go.
I have been using the Relaunch64 Editor in combination with Kickassembler and CCS64 for a while now. I sometimes use Vice when I need cycle exact information per line or want to use label files. But I really like the machine language monitor of CCS64 so I use that the most (a matter of personal taste I guess). Although Relaunch64 is really nice, it doesnt get updated anymore and there are some things that bother me that I would like to get fixed.
I tested the new environment mainly with these problems in mind. If these problems would be solved and some additional benefits would be there, this would warrant a switch to the new editor.
Relaunch64
Disadvantages/bugs
- Nested comment blocks /* and */ screw up the syntax highlighting of the rest of the source
- Undo function doesnt work
- Run source (which was already compiled on a previous go) doesnt work
- Using multiple Emulators doesnt work well. I always end up with copying the settings to the first emulator.
- Error-log (compiler output) pops up in an annoying seperate window and doesnt go away (you need an extra mouse click to close it)
- Clicking on a compile error from the compiler output and jumping to the line within the source code doesnt work
- No possibility to fold blocks of finished code to keep the source tidy and short
Eclipse/WUDSN IDE
Disadvantages of Relaunch64
- Nested comment blocks work well
- Undo works well
- Run source works well
- Multiple Emulators not tested but I think it isnt implemented yet (there is only CCS64 to be selected from the pulldown menu)
- Error-log is not a seperate window and stays neatly out of the way in a console window. Nice.
- Clicking on a compile error seems to work well with the Atari version (judging from the tutorial videos) but not for the C64.
- Folding only works on compiler directives and macros (whats the use then?). I found out that you can fold with scope brackets { and } but Kickassembler now makes all inclosed labels and variables local (and everything outside invisible) making it unusable for this purpose.
Additional advantages of Eclipse/WUDSN IDE
- It compiles faster than with Relaunch64
- There is an outline section (I can see some benefits to this but it doesnt get as neatly organised as in the tutorial of the Atari version)
- Syntax highlighting is more expanded (what doesnt work are the illegal opcodes)
- Content Assist (nice but do we really need this on a 6502 assembler?)
Features it lacks which are in Relaunch64
- Hex-bin-dec converter (I use this a lot)
- Paragraphs (a fast way to jump to specific parts in large sources)
Conclusion
At this point I dont really see enough benifits to change my working environment. Possible because not all the points I addressed are working the way they should. Marginal better navigation is negated by the bloathness of the whole thing IMO.
Also I was unable to update to 1.6.2 (Cannot complete the install because of a conflicting dependency).
My 2 cents.
John
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JAC
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 56 |
Hi John,
Thanks for the feedback, I really need feedback to improve the IDE towards what people would like to have.
>Clicking on a compile error seems to work well with the Atari version (judging from the tutorial videos) but not for the C64.
That's a bug then. As long as the error message containes file & line in the defined syntax it should work. Please provide an example via PM.
>Folding only works on compiler directives and macros (whats the use then?). I found out that you can fold with scope brackets { and } but Kickassembler now makes all inclosed labels and variables local (and everything outside invisible) making it unusable for this purpose.
>Paragraphs (a fast way to jump to specific parts in large sources)
Yeah, I had mentioned this in notes of the first thread and forgot to mention it here obviously:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=11&topicid=87082.
The parsing of the nesting is the actual benfit of the outline and it doesn't work yet for KickAss in this first version. Is the prio 1 topic for the next update in this regard. It is the key to navigation in large projects.
>Syntax highlighting is more expanded (what doesnt work are the illegal opcodes)
Illegal opcodes are off by default. In the preferences you can choose the instruction(sub)set you want to use/see in the IDE.
>Content Assist (nice but do we really need this on a 6502 assembler?)
There are two major aspects to this. This was the first function I implemented and it was mainly done to make sure the highlighting works as aspect and that I have not forgotten any instruction. And I got feedback from newbie user's that they actually really like it. That's why the next version will also have ths as part of the online help.
The real benefit comes with the evolving support for not only opcodes & direcives but also for identifiers. I.e. you can type "level_" CTRL+SPACE and you'll see all labels, etc. which start with "level_". My current project has >17.000 LOC and I'd go mad without this feature :-)
> Hex-bin-dec converter (I use this a lot)
Nice feature. I have added it to the whish list. There are already some text/selection enhancements for sorting. This is similar and easy to added.
>Also I was unable to update to 1.6.2 (Cannot complete the install because of a conflicting dependency).
The first upload of 1.6.2 had a corrupted and a missing file for some unknown reason. I recommend to uninstall the previous version and make sure there are no "com.wudsn...." files left in the plugins folder. If you still have issues, just PM or post.
Cheers, Peter/JAC! |
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JAC
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 56 |
... One entry less on the wish list again. Conversion is possible for multi line selections with mixed numbers. Hex numbers are aligned to have an even number of digit, binary numbers are aligned to have a multiple of 8 digits.
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KiCHY
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2012
Posts: 1 |
Hi,
I follow development of this IDE since long time and your work is really great! I didn't try it out yet, for two reasons. It does not support my main 8bit platform (the ugly duck: Plus/4) and does not support the CA65 compiler I use.
Do you have any plans to make your IDE "Plus/4 ready" and/or support CA65?
Oh and please implement all kind of features you can think on because it's not a pure assembler but an Integrated Development Environment :)
Keep up the good work,
KiCHY/ASN |
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JAC
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 56 |
Hi KiCHY,
Up to the last release, there was a direct binding between the compiler and the platform. By enhancing the parser I have added the "@com.wudsn.ide.asm.hardware=C64" property and with the additional restructing of the preferences you can now use any supported compiler for any supported platform. Also adding new platforms is a simple tasks now, because is mainly means to give it a code, a name, and the list emulators with their properties (id, name, download URL, default parameters). I have added NES in one evening, Plus/4 wouldn't take longer. But the platform is not the issue anyway since you can use any platform and choose "User Defined Application" to run the stuff.
Regarding additional compilers, the main point is that I need to test and have a proper test suite. This means a lot of effort (or bad quality) for a compiler which I don't use for my own stuff. That's why I do it step by step and try to improve the parser and why I need feedback from the users. Current step is KickAss (esp. { }), next step is definintely CA65. I've had requests from all platforms to support is (also from Atari and NES community) already, but it's beast just like KickAss, so I approach it carefully :-) |
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Barbarossa
Registered: May 2007
Posts: 31 |
Quote:>Clicking on a compile error seems to work well with the Atari version (judging from the tutorial videos) but not for the C64.
That's a bug then. As long as the error message containes file & line in the defined syntax it should work. Please provide an example via PM.
Reproduction of this error is so easy that it is impossible for you to miss it, so I must probably be doing something wrong. I will send you an PM with a step-by-step description of what I did.
Quote:The parsing of the nesting is the actual benfit of the outline and it doesn't work yet for KickAss in this first version. Is the prio 1 topic for the next update in this regard. It is the key to navigation in large projects.
This should indeed be fixed before we can go any further IMO.
Quote:>Syntax highlighting is more expanded (what doesnt work are the illegal opcodes)
Illegal opcodes are off by default. In the preferences you can choose the instruction(sub)set you want to use/see in the IDE.
I did choose the correct setting. The illegal opcodes are compiling properly however their color remains unchanged in the editor (syntax highlighting). It seems that the following screen is not working (also regarding jumping to the error line).
Quote:The real benefit comes with the evolving support for not only opcodes & direcives but also for identifiers. I.e. you can type "level_" CTRL+SPACE and you'll see all labels, etc. which start with "level_". My current project has >17.000 LOC and I'd go mad without this feature :-)
I tried this but typing the first characters of a label and pressing ctrl+space does nothing. Probably also related to a working outline first.
Quote:> Hex-bin-dec converter (I use this a lot)
Nice feature. I have added it to the whish list. There are already some text/selection enhancements for sorting. This is similar and easy to added.
I've seen you already implemented this feature before I had the time to post an answer :-) Not exactly how I meant it but I think this can be useful also.
In the source I don't really care about the format of the numbers. That's why I have %, # and $ to do the work for me. But I do a lot of realtime calculations. Also when debugging. That's when I use the feature in Relaunch64 - more as a calculator.
But I guess I can dedicate a separate section in the source (commented) where I can do my calculations.
John |
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