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Sounx
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 30 |
Release id #187181 : Into Hinterland World +4
I opened this thread because this discussion would probably be moved to the forum at some point anyway. Saved the mods some work...
So, let me get this straight: The initial purpose of this Triad version is to have a trainer in level 1 where it is superfluous to have a trainer? That was the initial trigger for Triad's version, right?
And yes, the 1st release scene is childish. We've heard that over and over again. That's probably also why some people feel the urge to complain about a 1st release that lacks a trainer, which is not needed in the first place, and then put out a 101% version to show 'how it's done'?
I can't help but feeling that I smell some sour grapes over a possible firstie lost??? |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
hi,
There seem to be different opinions about the level 1 training. FWIW I wasn't involved in training at all but for me it was a natural thing to train level 1. I personally would have opposed if Maxlide hadn't trained level 1. It is just how it usually is done, thus the questions.
I am not sure if I can recall any other game where a single level has not been trained, but that doesnt necessary mean there isnt.
We had started looking at the game prior laxity release so the trigger was not the trainer.
The 101% is not related to the level 1 trainer, the weapon handling has a bug.
We had put some work(time if you prefer) into it and since we thought we made an OK package, why not release it... laxity scroller states its a quick version and a better will come. (in their own words).. We kinda agreed and our trigger was that a better version was needed, Dealer Quality Software. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
At least it's much better than freeware shit from lemon/github that's usually released and claimed for "points" in 2020 which is a joke really...
I mean if people have fun doing something isn't that the point anymore? We're getting too old for this teenage angst and insanity... but then a lot of people around C64 still aren't exactly sane, that much is obvious.
Still, if Triad wanna release something they spent time on, who cares.
Imo it's nice that game dev has picked up in the last few years and some really good titles are coming out for the c64 again, better than ever. Maybe should focus more on the cool things and stop bickering over useless bullshit.
Coming from ME of all people, that should hold some weight. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2218 |
Even the tag "+1" clearly shows LXT was horny for scoring in 1stie stats. Might not have been a super release, but so far I see no problem, crackers crack, crackers that care about stats, sometimes crack... well, most of all fast. The downvoting seems a little pathetic to me. Just all those alibis why no more trainer functions were added can't explain away that this release was done in a rush. Imho the release did not start to get a little lame before LXT reacted on provocation in comments :)
3AD's version is obviously superior quality, however, and thus, the one most gamers will keep, whereas no gamer will give a damn who was first. The fact who was first will be a footnote in firstie scene which means YAY I guess. |
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Sounx
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 30 |
Hey Sailor,
Sure, I guess you might have a different view on the 1st level trainer. But still I found it a bit harsh to criticize Laxity's attempt for 1st release points just for not doing a -pointless- trainer, even though it was a proper release.
At the same time there is no doubt your version with the bugfix and more trainers, is the more complete product. But I also consider Remember's versions of many games the better versions, but still value the memories of the battles for those firsties in them famous old days. :)
So in 'cracking-terms' I think one should still consider what was achieved: 1st release or best release? Or in ideal circumstances: Both!
Reality is things don't always work out that way and some still like to race for 1st and take those points and the 1st release charm. That has always been a part of our scene. Oh and it makes for some more exciting statistics aswell!
So in that context I for one appreciate Didi's fast version almost as much as your 101% version. No need to critisize the absence of a trainer that makes no sense in the first place! As Jazzcat already mentions in the comments: both release are fine, each in their own specific way.
When questioning what sense this all makes in 2020 anyway, I can only quote a world famous 'kwacker' here: 'a lot of people around C64 still aren't exactly sane, that much is obvious'. That about explains all of it.
And Fungus, totally agree on your opinion about the game dev. I find some of the titles in recent years simply unbelievable and all praise should go to those guys involved! This game from Abyss is just so impressive in all ways possible.
So to round up may I quote you (once more): 'Maybe should focus more on the cool things and stop bickering over useless bullshit'. That coming from someone like us just confirms once more: yes, we're getting old! :) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
I would debate that they are even cracks, they are releases. There's nothing to crack anymore but oldies. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2218 |
yeah, true |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 486 |
We have the points, Triad has the fame. ;-) |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
Points points points.. Fingers are pointed against us for trying to get points over this release.. but in reality we didnt release a quick(bad, if you want) version for the points only, hm?
We are satisfied with our final release, and restrained releasing until we got there. A +1 would been finished on saturday evening, but we didn't wanna go down that path.
It hurts us more to release a bad version than loosing points. Quality over quantity. Jerry thought me the importance of doing a good version, and did I hear when something was wrong :). In the beginning I handed over releases to him that he refused to release before I had finished it up better. (Gamers Guide, where art thou?)
I have done some very rushed releases and that usually ends up in not always so good release (sloppy, in better terms). Been there, done that, and there are some releases I gladly hand over the points to anyone if I just can delete the bugged first version.
"We have the points, Triad has the fame. ;-)".
Yes, and for that we are grateful. Are you working on a better release as stated in your scrolltext, or did you let us make the better version ?. I hope you are working on a second version otherwise you have set your standard, we won't lower ours. |
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Giulio/Wolf
Registered: Apr 2016
Posts: 18 |
Quote: We have the points, Triad has the fame. ;-)
Wow, being flamed, downvoted and whatever else just only to get the points... Funny game :)
I also read a comment about game coder dislikes trainers in level 1 because then it's too easy for everyone, which is exactly the purpose of trainers. Non-sense.
Nowadays standards for a release are really high. People expects a lot from groups, so releasing rushed releases only for the point is a risk and could be a boomerang, you experienced this by yourself.
That's what I think. |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
..Rephrasing a quick(bad) word, no points for that comment..
Cant edit, but with the word bad in the post I mean unpolished, just for the points. Quality over quantity. |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
In this day, I would change the rules to favor quality, there is no reason to rush versions anymore. |
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Goat
Registered: Oct 2007
Posts: 42 |
There is also no reason for Formula 1 races anymore... :) |
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Fungus
Registered: Sep 2002
Posts: 680 |
You do realize that in 2020 racing to release freeware games lacking any sort of protection at all looks completely pathetic right? right? It was pathetic 20 years ago.
So better to do something nice to them, rather than fast shitty versions anyone can do in 20 minutes.
You guys seem to have different ideas about how things should be. To many of us it looks like some kind of weird ego flex that means nothing, because there is no challenge in it at all other than racing some other lamer to be hurr durr first like some youtube comments.
That's fine you can be like that, don't expect people to ride your nuts and pat you on the back for it or give you a participation medal. |
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Sounx
Account closed
Registered: Dec 2006
Posts: 30 |
Fungus, let's be honest here, it's hasn't been about cracking in the true essence of the word anymore since >25 years! Exceptions excluded ofcourse. So what? If we persist in keeping this c64 scene alive, why not also try to keep some of that traditional first release spirit alive? I remember that friends were calling me pathetic in 1995 for still sticking to the c64. And now in 2020 I'm still around in one way or another. Pathetic? Maybe... Yes. :)
Be it in terms of quality (which we all admire and will always prefer) or in speed which (if the game is 100% working like it is originally intended) is impressive in it's own way aswell... I still enjoy every small bit of competition remaining in the c64 scene, as insignificant as may be.
Like where 2 top-notch 1337 groups, with a combined memberstatus of 60+ active members (according to CSDb), beat a smaller crew with only 6 members, by introlinking and +1D training a (cool!!) game like 'Crackpots'! Well done! *thumbs up* |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2218 |
Quote: There is also no reason for Formula 1 races anymore... :)
True! Why don't they stop that nonsense |
