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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Event id #3450 : C64GFX.com Loading Screen Compo 2024
No serious rules for this compo.
You can remake/remaster an old loading screen or create a loading screen for a game that doesn't already have one... or even for an imaginary game. NO RERELEASES - this must be new material.
Acceptable formats:-
- Multicolour Bitmap
- Hires Bitmap
- PETSCII
We will split the compo into those 3 categories.
NO FLI, no interlace, no raster bars, no sprite overlays, no animation, no music. No graphical changes or enhancements at all - keep it plain.
Of course you can use an initial fade in so long as it's fairly quick (less than 5 seconds).
Voting will be done on the new C64GFX.com voting platform. You can register for that now (just hit the "register" bar at the top). Please enter your handle as your username. Votes will only county from CSDb registered users on this compo - we will confirm with all voters if needed before voting completes.
Voting will run throughout the compo and for an additional approx 2 weeks. Don't save your votes till the last minute as I will close voting sometime between 14th and 16th October (ie. you won't know exactly when).
Votes will be kept private until the voting window closes - and will BE MADE PUBLIC after that window (down/up voters beware).
We'll use the squared-average formula again to work out final results.
Have fun :-) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Note: latest rules will always be the ones on C64GFX.com - accessible through the compo page here: https://c64gfx.com/compo/3450 .. and that's also where you can vote.
Small additional rule: PRG/D64s must be supplied that display the image in the format for which you're entering. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
We have compo-voting working on C64GFX.com :-) .. please, if you haven't tried it - and I know that 99% of you haven't - you should go check it out. Just hit the "register" button, visit the compo page and get voting :-)
https://c64gfx.com/compo/3450
Compo Voting is only enabled on compos that I specify on the website, such as this compo. It's a "points out of 10" system and, as you'll see, you can very rapidly vote on all the entries in the compo - because I really want it to be as simple and easy as possible for more people to get involved :-)
Check it out, let me know if you think it could be improved (for future compos), etc... and please do vote in this compo :-)
Oh, the compo results are restricted to sceners .. so please use your scene name when you register and PM me if you can through CSDb. Without verification, you can vote .. but only verified accounts will actually affect the result of the competition. |
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jab
Registered: Apr 2020
Posts: 20 |
Quoting Raistlinplease use your scene name when you register
I tried, but... "ⓘ Username must be between 4 and 64 characters long." :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: Quoting Raistlinplease use your scene name when you register
I tried, but... "ⓘ Username must be between 4 and 64 characters long." :)
Haha, sorry! That's a restriction with Clerk. _jab_ perhaps? :-) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Thanks everyone for entering! Entries are now closed.
Please, please register and vote on C64GFX. I think you’ll like the way that voting works. And, people have been saying for a long time that compo voting and CSDb voting needs separation - C64GFX does that IMO and makes things much fairer on both itself and CSDb :-) |
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REBEL 1
Registered: May 2023
Posts: 4 |
At least I don't want to look at AI generated images in the context of a compo of Sceners. It's the act of doing it yourself that we admire. It's also clear that great images can be generated on the c64 (and always important to see!). Reminds me of composed SID tracks compared to sampling. If there will be a separate category for this in the future - great! The rating standards (and I mean that in a non-judgmental way) are completely incommensurable. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: At least I don't want to look at AI generated images in the context of a compo of Sceners. It's the act of doing it yourself that we admire. It's also clear that great images can be generated on the c64 (and always important to see!). Reminds me of composed SID tracks compared to sampling. If there will be a separate category for this in the future - great! The rating standards (and I mean that in a non-judgmental way) are completely incommensurable.
We're busy looking at ways to manage that right now. I have a plan. I can't move images between categories, change the rules or change how things are voted for .. but there are ways to make things a little bit fairer and more transparent to voters. |
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rexbeng
Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 37 |
If I may offer an opinion on that matter. Pixeling over an AI generated image is really not different from pixeling over an image sourced from the web or other media. It would be handy to have some sort of 'reference' checkbox for pictures that are based (to whatever extend) on third party reference images, and perhaps even the possibility to upload the reference image alongside the C64 format. So then, people may look at all the material and make their judgement. |
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REBEL 1
Registered: May 2023
Posts: 4 |
Hi rexbeng,
Yeah I think that is completely fine. My concerns start when ordering Burgers at McDonald's is confused with cooking. :)
(Quoting "No fixing by hand.") |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
FWIW if I’m not mistaken, Jetboy is coding/working on an image converter of his own, therefore “No fixing by hand”. I don’t think coding a converter that will feature a great looking output is any easier than pixelling over pictures. In fact, I feel it’s much harder, but that’s of course extremely subjective. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 520 |
my compowinning (!) entry has artist (!!) = unknown. https://c64gfx.com/image/245618
I know it's a trick to force me to create an account, but I'm well trained and skilled, I know my chicken :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: my compowinning (!) entry has artist (!!) = unknown. https://c64gfx.com/image/245618
I know it's a trick to force me to create an account, but I'm well trained and skilled, I know my chicken :)
Ahh, that's because I grab the artist information from CSDb.. where you're credited for "ripping" and not for graphics.
I can add a graphics credit for you, just on C64GFX, if you like? We should probably also add short notes then to describe how this pic was created?
We have some images on the site now showing AI information .. but, yes, ripping, wiring and other methods should equally be added to be fair. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: FWIW if I’m not mistaken, Jetboy is coding/working on an image converter of his own, therefore “No fixing by hand”. I don’t think coding a converter that will feature a great looking output is any easier than pixelling over pictures. In fact, I feel it’s much harder, but that’s of course extremely subjective.
It does seem to be a fantastic convertor. The best that I can do in the compo is to mention that process - which I have. In my mind, it's the convertor that should get a great score, as a Tool. The image itself, I'm not sure - I'd like to plead the "chicken" card here and leave for others :-) |
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jmin
Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 10 |
@raistlin: Your note added to Operation MILF is definitely misleading because it states that a big part of the pic was created via AI. AI was only used for creating a high-res reference pic (included in the .7z) and not for creating any part of the released pic; it's all pixeled by hand.
If "having used reference material" needs highlighting, my MDK pic as well as Batman, Project Firestorm, Atomic RoboKid, the two Ultima pics and who knows what else would need to be tagged. It's loading screens for games and thus we're all referencing the games' artworks in one way or another.
As for "Mad Maxine", yep, it looks like that the converter might deserve a 10/10, but all pic created with it (especially without touch-ups and that's arguable too) are just wired jobs. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: @raistlin: Your note added to Operation MILF is definitely misleading because it states that a big part of the pic was created via AI. AI was only used for creating a high-res reference pic (included in the .7z) and not for creating any part of the released pic; it's all pixeled by hand.
If "having used reference material" needs highlighting, my MDK pic as well as Batman, Project Firestorm, Atomic RoboKid, the two Ultima pics and who knows what else would need to be tagged. It's loading screens for games and thus we're all referencing the games' artworks in one way or another.
As for "Mad Maxine", yep, it looks like that the converter might deserve a 10/10, but all pic created with it (especially without touch-ups and that's arguable too) are just wired jobs.
Ohhh, sorry about that - in that case, I totally misunderstood what I read! I'll fix this. |
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The Sarge
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 49 |
Quote: @raistlin: Your note added to Operation MILF is definitely misleading because it states that a big part of the pic was created via AI. AI was only used for creating a high-res reference pic (included in the .7z) and not for creating any part of the released pic; it's all pixeled by hand.
If "having used reference material" needs highlighting, my MDK pic as well as Batman, Project Firestorm, Atomic RoboKid, the two Ultima pics and who knows what else would need to be tagged. It's loading screens for games and thus we're all referencing the games' artworks in one way or another.
As for "Mad Maxine", yep, it looks like that the converter might deserve a 10/10, but all pic created with it (especially without touch-ups and that's arguable too) are just wired jobs.
It's a 99% match of the reference and the pixeled image. I'm removing 1% for corrected fingers. :)
Rexbeng said it.
If it's converted and touched up afterwards or or pixeled over I can't be arsed to find out right now.
So I don't think its fair to say this reference is in the same ballpark as the Batman or any other characters used in the other entries here. |
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jmin
Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 10 |
Quote: It's a 99% match of the reference and the pixeled image. I'm removing 1% for corrected fingers. :)
Rexbeng said it.
If it's converted and touched up afterwards or or pixeled over I can't be arsed to find out right now.
So I don't think its fair to say this reference is in the same ballpark as the Batman or any other characters used in the other entries here.
The answer is right there in post #9:
Quote:Pixeling over an AI generated image is really not different from pixeling over an image sourced from the web or other media
as well as in the initial comment of the pic
Quote:AI was used to generate the trooper picture (included in the pack) that was then brought to pixels
I know, English is neither mine nor your nor rexbeng's first language, but come on.
For the other pics mentioned (OK, for Batman it's just the logo), look up the box art and the pics. Of course we've lifted those too, that's the whole shebang of loading screens and going for a 99% match is more or less the goal of these pics.
Next up we're arguing if bringing MI gfx to the C64 is worth cheering or not because they're 99% matching the original paintings or PC/Amiga gfx (and before you ask, of course it's worth cheering, because porting gfx or code or whatever is a creative endeavor in itself) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
I think we're missing the point here ..
CSDb currently has the comment system for allowing people to talk about how art was created. Which is great.
With C64GFX, I wanted as much as possible for compos to keep everything on a single page ... so you can vote on images, change your mind, compare against others in the compo, etc etc.
But with that, we were losing "detail". The tagging system works to an extent .. but doesn't give the greater detail. Whether something was started from a blank canvas, or from a reference pic, or is a paintover, etc etc.
The scene has a long history of drama with "No Copy" .. and now AI enters the fray as well. To me it doesn't matter if you reference a Google Image, photo or an AI drawn image (some will of course be harder to prove than the other). Referencing is fine IMO.
Painting over a photo or image I'm not too keen on .. not for serious artists, anyway (just to stop people looking at my own "art" .. I'm a coder and a "joke-artist" - if I ever win a graphic competition then we KNOW that the system is f***ed).
Anyway, everything was allowed in the loading screen compo, and still is. But we -will- add detail given to us about how art was created. For now, I'll take that just from the original artist - which seems to cause enough drama it seems - but later on we may ask the community about whether there're better ways to do this. There -have- been cases where art has been more directly copied without attribution .. and if people can submit sufficient evidence of such copying/drawing over..................
As I say, though.. for this compo, everything is allowed. People can vote how they like. Some can vote on how deserving the work done may be to win .. others may simply decide that the final presentation is all that matters and it doesn't matter how that was arrived at? We're all adults. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
With that, I am re-adding the comment on Rexbeng's pic. It's made from his words, it's not misrepresentation .. I carefully built that, to fit the limited space I had, from Rexbeng's comments here.
Rexbeng is an amazing artist - but he's admitted that this isn't his usual style. I'd like to see more from him like this. I don't think there's anything wrong with doing this at all - so long as it's done openly. |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
@jmin:
I wasn’t going to take part in this, but you leave me no choice.
Firstly, I’m sure that You, being a gfx artist yourself, know the difference between “using reference” and putting a picture into Photoshop, then pixelling over it in a layer above. Let’s say that the misunderstanding is in the language barrier.
Secondly, the funky angle of the barrels that idiotic “AI” churned out was not made right manually for the final picture, but it was made even worse, so that the whole rifle now stands under completely wrong angle losing all sense of perspective. OK, at least the barrels now stand under the same (albeit wrong) angle. So, AI job was not artistically enhanced in the process, it was actually kinda made worse. The hands are about the only thing that benefited in the pixelization proces, and a pretty darn good job was done on the hands!
One just has to look, and not even look very hard to make a judgement.
These are some of the reasons why I don’t care for this pic. You, on the other hand, like it. And this is perfectly OK. But what you’re ending up doing is gaslighting Raistlin and The Sarge by your insistance. |
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rexbeng
Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 37 |
I think we all agree that Raistlin's initiative with the gallery and the compos is amazing and was much needed. I am also pretty sure that he is open to suggestions about additional features. However, there should be no need for him to 'police' releases; it's up to the creator of a picture to supply all necessary info. So, this is mostly a job for the scene to consider.
@4gentE. With regards to references and how they are used. Hm. I think I might be missing the point, as I don't really get what is the difference between 'using reference' and 'pixeling over' when talking about pixeling images. Care to elaborate? |
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jmin
Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 10 |
Gaslighting wasn't my intention, the arguments thrown around are just new/strange to me and (of course) an old hat for everybody else around, so sry about that.
As for the difference, I'm not an artist, I just like to push some pixels around until they fit. Albert (and other tools) allow loading up a reference pic and for what else could that be used as for pixeling over, especially when pixeling for a "loading pic" compo where turning artworks into pixels is key.
Guess, all is said from my end 🤗 |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Oh no. Not again...
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rexbeng
Registered: Aug 2012
Posts: 37 |
Hahah! I do believe you need a new dolphin though. This looks too traditional for 2024. :D |
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4gentE
Registered: Mar 2021
Posts: 285 |
Quote:Care to elaborate?
No. |
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The Sarge
Registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 49 |
@Hedning. That dolphin is wired. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Quote: @Hedning. That dolphin is wired.
Are you going full Dolphin? Never go full Dolphin. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Jmin: Ok, I think the confusion here comes from the term “reference”. I’m not an artist but I have worked with many artists - and designers - throughout my career .. and “reference”, “ideas board”, “design board”, etc were something that I heard about regularly.
For artists/designers (whether art, music or other), “references” are simply anything that they can use (“as a reference”) to help them with things that might not come immediately to mind. Photos of people running, for example, to help remind about arm and leg positions.. or pictures of animals so that you don’t end up drawing an owl with rabbit ears (the brain is a funny thing) etc.
So when people talk about “references” that’s at least what I think of. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Apologies that voting was down for a while this afternoon… entirely my fault and I’m just showing that I’m a noob with web development here.
The technical bit: I got scared at how many database queries were being sent (the db is externally hosted and the host has limits…) so I “optimized” it. Then didn’t notice that the optimization had completely borked it.
It’s fixed now, anyway, and database queries should be back at a sensible figure :) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Just 4-5 days left to vote now :-) … voting will close sometime between 14-16 October. The top spots are -very- close right now, #1 and #2 just swapped places with last night’s voting.
Every vote counts.
https://www.c64gfx.com/compo/3450 |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Quote:This password has been found as part of a breach and can not be used, please try another password instead.
LOOOOOOOOL. yeah bad luck. no vote then >_< |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: Quote:This password has been found as part of a breach and can not be used, please try another password instead.
LOOOOOOOOL. yeah bad luck. no vote then >_<
We use Clerk for user registration. Interesting that it doesn’t let you use a breached password at all, rather than just warning you about it. I don’t believe I have any control over that in the settings… |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
Not making the login yourself, so you can log all the info, seems like a beginner mistake to me :o) |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: Not making the login yourself, so you can log all the info, seems like a beginner mistake to me :o)
There are 1,000s of registered users on CSDb. If i chose the best… would I still trust them more to make a secure use registration system than one that’s been tried and tested for so long? No. Definitely I would trust Clerk more than myself :p |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11386 |
not that you need a secure registration for c64 compo voting :D |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quoting chatGPZnot that you need a secure registration for c64 compo voting :D
You’d be surprised :p |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
And we’re done! Thanks everyone for entering and for trying out our new voting system - it seemed to work a treat :-)
I’m on holiday/vacation at the moment. I have the scores, I know who the winner is, and I’ll let you all know asap - it’s just tricky to pull it all into a TXT results thing while I’m at the beach :-) .. I’ll try but, at worst, the results will come in 3-4 days. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Full results are available on the compo page at C64GFX here: https://c64gfx.com/compo/3450 (click "results" at the top of the page).
Thanks again everyone! Congrats to the winners, and to all entrants, on such awesome work :-)
42 people voted. 1407 votes were cast in total.
And tomorrow .. the full votes will be made public as promised |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
And we now, as promised, present the full vote table (all votes are public): https://c64gfx.com/compo/publicvotes/3450
I'm hoping this will be drama-free and perhaps be good encouragement for CSDb to go full-public-voting :-) |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 498 |
Thanks Raistlin. Nice compo!
Next up: another tape loader music compo to accompany those pics? Anyone? :-) |
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jmin
Registered: Feb 2024
Posts: 10 |
Jep, thanks for the fun compo and for pushing a public vote. It's indeed fun to see how folks are approaching it in different ways. Also nice to see my Tapper pic got some additional love despite being a out-of-compo entry. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
Quote: And we now, as promised, present the full vote table (all votes are public): https://c64gfx.com/compo/publicvotes/3450
I'm hoping this will be drama-free and perhaps be good encouragement for CSDb to go full-public-voting :-)
Hat off for making so many representations of collected data. Appreciated. Although preview of image on hover would be nice feature, so I would know what I was voting for ;-) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3057 |
P.S. you started the project as a (just another boring, although easy to navigate) gallery, but made it to respected and well thought out gfx compo platform. Thumbs up. Respect & keep up the good work. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: Hat off for making so many representations of collected data. Appreciated. Although preview of image on hover would be nice feature, so I would know what I was voting for ;-)
The voting page had all the pics fully visible. It’s just this public-results page that doesn’t. I could definitely add hover-images - I’ll do that in the next day or two maybe, thanks for the heads-up. |
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Raistlin
Registered: Mar 2007
Posts: 680 |
Quote: P.S. you started the project as a (just another boring, although easy to navigate) gallery, but made it to respected and well thought out gfx compo platform. Thumbs up. Respect & keep up the good work.
Cheers :-)
Yeah, I nearly gave up on the site early on. Glad that I didn’t now - though the distraction is affecting my demo-coding of course.
More features planned - I’ve been using the compos to help push myself to add features faster. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4732 |
Quote: Cheers :-)
Yeah, I nearly gave up on the site early on. Glad that I didn’t now - though the distraction is affecting my demo-coding of course.
More features planned - I’ve been using the compos to help push myself to add features faster.
Keep it up, man. It will win votewise in the long run. Lovely thing to visit and enjoy. |
