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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Release id #102337 : Bleeding Ink
Fuck.
What's wrong with this one!?
The download link is there.
The explanation for deletion says "video != c64 release", yet other wild entries from that party (linked as wmv) remain intact!!! See here, wild compo -> Silesia Party 5
This is fucking bullshit. |
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sebalozlepsi
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 22 |
who cares? |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
I do, fuck you.
If you don't care, then shut the fuck up. |
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sebalozlepsi
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 22 |
whats wrong with you polish guys? calm down. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
"The explanation for deletion says "video != c64 release", yet other wild entries from that party (linked as wmv) remain intact!!!"
i know you dont agree with the rules already, but maybe you should still read them once. we don not actively search for this kind of release (that do not belong here), but we will remove them if we stumble about them or someone points us to them.
so you are infact correct - removing only one of these is bullshit. fixed now. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Groepaz,
If anything else, Artphosis is an ultimate proof that you indeed have imagination, feelings and soul.
Apply those principles to the database, I am convinced no one does really appreciate this mechanistic approach anymore.
Everything needs to evolve, when did the last revision of the database rules occur? Is the scene still in the same place?
Being so restrictive, is the database gaining or losing? Is the scene gaining or losing?
Ask yourself - how many Hitmen releases under Hitmen entry should no longer be there in line with the rules? No download links for 5-6 years already, yet nobody is dickish enough to delete them. This database is about people, not robots. Rules are meant to serve, not to discourage and demotivate. |
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bugjam
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 2556 |
wackee: very well put. A bit of flexibility would be really appreciated; for the sake of our common goal to preserve scene history, if nothing else. |
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Mace
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 1799 |
This one is on the edge, on the wrong side of it, IMHO.
Disc covers are allowed, in the form of JPG or PDF.
Another file format would be a video...
That said, I think that a video made of paper art is not really a Commodore 64 release. It's not made on a C64 and the paper art itself can not directly be reproduced from that video.
Same as MP3 is not allowed for music.
This is just stretching it a little bit too far... yet, as I said, IMHO :-) |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Actually, youtube (=video) links are allowed in demo entries. Should they be banned?
MP3 links are allowed in music entries, especially 2SID. Should they be banned?
We have a "WiLD Demo" category in the database, yet many wild demos have no other form of existence than video. Video demos are part of the demoscene - check Amiga. Should the category be removed?
IS DEMOSCENE ABOUT CREATIVITY, ART, BREAKING BARRIERS OR THE OPPOSITE? |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
you really should *read* the rules before complaining. we deliberately do not have support for youtube for example. nor is there a "wild demo" category.
and whatever you think demoscene is about, csdb isnt the scene, and the scene is not csdb. ask jazzcat if in doubt =P |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Groepaz,
If you need to get to semantics to make your point... :)
1). I never said you support YT. But you allow YT links in releases. Why then does it say "The link you add must point directly to the binary." in teh edit screen? YT video is not a C64 binary. Care to explain this obvious exception to the unbreakable rules?
2). There is a "WiLD Demo Compo" category in events. Do you created it especially, so it stays empty because the wild demos themselves are not allowed to be put there? That makes a lot of sense, really.
3). I am still waiting for the explanation on the party videos. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:But you allow YT links in releases.
IF there is a link to a binary, then we MIGHT allow such links. if there is ONLY a youtube link, then the entry will usually get killed. no, by now i dont expect you to understand what the difference is anymore.
Quote:There is a "WiLD Demo Compo" category in events. Do you created it especially, so it stays empty because the wild demos themselves are not allowed to be put there?
what do you think, is this for all and every wild demo, or is it for actual c64 demos that for some reason entered a wild competition?
Quote:I am still waiting for the explanation on the party videos.
i seriously lost the motivation to explain by now to be honest. they are something entire different. if "bleeding ink" belongs here, then fritz lang is a c64 scener, i guess. if you dont get the difference, then i cant help you. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
I asked about the difference between the party videos and demo dvds. And please, quote the rules this time, so we are sure this is no some distinction that is just "in the moderator's conscience", like the difference between scene paper art in PDF and scene paper art in AVI with a SID soundtrack. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Quoting GroepazIF there is a link to a binary, then we MIGHT allow such links.
So the rules MIGHT be bend for some? Just not for everyone? |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 840 |
Yeah, my thoughts exactly. There's a ruling elite on this site and it's starting to fucking smell. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038 |
A bit offtopic maybe but I'll get to it in the next paragraph.. About 2 weeks ago I had finally got my DVD drive connected back in the PC and I still didn't run thos two DVD's that are sitting on my desk since I got them. I preffer to switch on C64 and compose or watch demos. I don't judge or anything like that but I don't feel guilty for that either. I just didn't ask for it, and I don't feel obliged to check it. I could forward it to someone else, just give me the address.
As far as my own opinion is concerned. I was always against more or less related C64 stuff promoted at c64.sk, retro nostalgiac stuff, various movements not directly supporting creative scene (like remixes, registered c64 religion, etc.) during the years my internal rules got weakened, and although I'm still against general stupidity, I appreciate everything that is promoting the scene culture in creative ways. Maybe even your DVD, which, however I didn't check yet because of various personal and emotional reasons.
I can understand the feelings. It's weird (;-) if people are not accepting something I consider to be good stuff (like my long time friend not wanting to watch some movies because from the synopsis he deducted that they will not suit his preferences). It's a bit frustrating and stupid, but one has to accept it. Most people won't tell us that they give a fkkk about what we do or love, we should appreciate those who sincerely tell us.
Roman
edit: this particular release seems to present some disc cover graphics in creative way (while playing sid tune in background) and it has entered a wild compo at some scene party. So it has some connection to C64 (creative) scene as it was created by C64 sceners, using C64 or C64 related material. (If I get it right.) So it probably could stay as entry in the database if there is will to accept it. Still if it doesn't stay, it might also be added to pouet which allows generally every release related to scene. There are still ways to get it spread.
Instead of arguing about preferences there should be some practical conclusion. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
Quote:There's a ruling elite on this site and it's starting to fucking smell.
there is a ruling elite on EVERY SITE. if you dont like this, you better leave the internet.
Quote:I asked about the difference between the party videos and demo dvds.
video from venlo meeting documents a historic event and legendary party. video from c64 demos is boring uninspired crap that has no purpose other than not watching c64 demos how they were ment to be watched. no, i dont expect you to understand the difference.
Quote:Instead of arguing about preferences there should be some practical conclusion.
indeed. and this solution can not be "just allow everything". as i said the other day on irc when lemmings head exploded :) the core problem is that there *must* be rules what belongs here and what doesnt - else ultimatively everything is "c64 related". and then everyone of us has different ideas of what is and what is not. and we will never ever all agree 100%. (and to be honest, if from thousend users a handful dont agree, then really nothing is wrong at all, as that will always be the case.) |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
...
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Quoting Groepazvideo from venlo meeting documents a historic event and legendary party. video from c64 demos is boring uninspired crap that has no purpose other than not watching c64 demos how they were ment to be watched. no, i dont expect you to understand the difference.
This dvd contains much more than c64 demos, including recordings from historic events like parties, wild demos connected with c64 that are not available anywhere else and other stuff. No, I don't expect you to appreciate the creativity, inspiration and 4 years of slave work put into something you just deleted without any consideration.
------------------------------
I'll stop my "complaining" here, as continuing on this discussion may result in a ban of my person (read the rules). Instead, I have written a formal request to consider changes to the moderators. If that's a preffered way to solve such disputes, let it be.
I do not have any personal gain in these discussions. I sincerely think what I argue about is for the benefit of the site and the community. Anyone has a right to a different opinion. |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3038 |
<Post edited by CreaMD on 2/11-2012 12:48>
You proposal of rules change would make this a C64 scene related database. The biggest value of this database is in more-or-less C64 executable data being stored here (with credits etc.). That's the content that has the highest value. Everything else is just the context... padding around it. I don't think having padding in the release timeline would make value of this database higher, therefore only solution in current situation is to try to not accept the padding as releases.
Simple illustration of what I mean:
Groups 6552
Sceners 18552
Releases 106675
Events 1707
Do you really think we should brag about ammount of C64 related releases or about ammount of files that are C64 executable*. If we start to accept everything as release we might double the ammount of releases in few years.. with what result? Would it make the quality of C64 demos/msx/gfx better? Did jingle compos, javascript demo compos, website compos etc. help to make PC scene parties better? I don't think so. Like I say in my profile, trying to please everyone is fastest way to failure.
But.. I think there should be some way of storing group related non C64 executable releases in the database. Somethink like I had at C64.sk news dustbin.. where I moved also releated stuff that I didn't consider directly a C64 scene news worthy.
*Let's not argue about details like why covers are accepted or why some entries are still there even when they are videos etc. I don't care about exceptions now. I'm trying to talk in general.
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sebalozlepsi
Registered: Mar 2010
Posts: 22 |
Pouet.net is waiting for C64 related material, which is not allowed on csdb. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Seba, as you noticed I'm not supporting multiplatform parties anymore, and I also try not to support the multiplatform sites. I feel in my heart that my obligation is to contribute here. This is my understanding of being "c64 hardcore" ;) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=%2Fparties%2F1999%2Fmekkasym..
- made by people who are and/or where active on c64
- contains c64 references all over the place
- plays an actual sid tune
now does this belong here or not, and why?
"I'm not supporting multiplatform parties anymore, and I also try not to support the multiplatform sites. [...] This is my understanding of being "c64 hardcore" ;)"
honestly, this is my understanding of "stupid". but i can see now what your conflict with the intention of csdb is. |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
Moving to insults now? Really?
Want to hear my definition of anal retentive?
Btw. is this entry OK:
Stary Piernik 4 Party Video |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11293 |
"Moving to insults now? Really?"
not at all. i just think its stupid. and csdb doesnt want to be a replacement for these multi platform sites which you dont seem to like for some reason (which i find a bit strange, considering your seemingly broad range of understanding what is scene stuff). |
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wacek
Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 509 |
I think we can exchange our ideas of "stupid" and things we find "strange" about each other till the end of time.
That's not moving anything forward. |
