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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
Release id #147008 : Ring on a String +
Quoting User Comment
Submitted by hedning on 4 April 2016
Didi: Problem with your argument with Monster Buster is that Onslaught won that race with this equally untrained release (they were first on the majority of boards): Monster Buster - then they uploaded a new trained version later on.
Well, from my memory the trained version of Monster Buster was uploaded to the boards as well to prevent anyone to grab the points through the quality rule (a fact which is not documented by any post), and secure the firstie.
With the argument of being uploaded to the majority of boards you could have got any of our this years RGCD releases, because The Hidden was offline that night. Just wait until it is back and upload to all 3 and get away with it. That's why it is not the way I handle it. Majority is being first on 2 of 3 within 24h. And who was first can be seen in the directory listing on the board.
Well, for me it's the quality rule which fits this release and justifies giving the points to Excess here. Different mag editors have always had different ways to handle releases. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
I checkted the upload dates on The Hidden (which is currently the only accesible source, because Colosseum is down and Antidote is reorganizing drive #1). Excess release was in fact uploaded more than 24h after the Triad one. Therefore 24h rule has no grip.
But they thought to have a good reason for a proper release regarding the rules, which is not bound to the 24h rule. From my point of view this reason is valid the way the rules are currently written.
On the other hand Mason has a good point here, because first releasing has never been about putting out good quality but just about being first at any cost.
The trainer rule was invented at a time where groups were releasing junk just for the fame in a shitty way. Maybe we can agree that we are mature enough that we do not need this rule anymore and drop it for the future.
In this case this release would be the proof piece that the rule is was based on is bad and just causes trouble because it is always a personal point of view if a trainer is needed or not. Therefor the trainer rule should be dropped... and the proof piece has to be ignored for the release list. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4606 |
We all know shit when we see it - I think all editors of the mags can agree on that. If some idiots start to try to piss on the lists and so on, we can just agree ignoring them, like we already do with fake group stuff. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
So the conclusion would be:
- Triad stays with the points for this game.
- Excess does not get re-release points.
- Trainer(s) are no longer required for future first releases, but everyone will try to put them out in a proper way.
Just waiting for Jazzcat to agree with this. ;) |
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Peacemaker
Registered: Sep 2004
Posts: 243 |
plus: shitmen will not be blacklisted ;) |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
Shitmen was invented to be blacklisted. ;)
Release under Hitmen and you are welcome to join the fun and show us how it's done. :D |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4606 |
Quote: So the conclusion would be:
- Triad stays with the points for this game.
- Excess does not get re-release points.
- Trainer(s) are no longer required for future first releases, but everyone will try to put them out in a proper way.
Just waiting for Jazzcat to agree with this. ;)
Indeed. Excess did put out their release in time, but did not win the race, thus Triad will get the points in Propaganda, Excess will be mentioned of course, and will not recieve re-release penalty.
For me (and obviously Jazzcat if we check the history of his former judgements, and now Didi) trainers were never an issue when it comes to first releases that does not need training. People that try to snatch easy points on games that need at least some training will be laughed at from time to time, of course. We have the power to write what we want in the mags, and I believe all active groups aim for quality even if it can be some ugly point hunting from time to time (Paper Plane comes to mind etc), but sometimes we just have different approaches, like in Labyrinth &S (solution) and Labyrinth +2M (trainers), where time was running but both groups made some time consuming effort to just don't introslap the release. I would say we are mature enough to handle this (even if demosceners will see this whole discussion as proof that we are immature as hell playing this game in 2016). |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
No objections from me. The 2003 rule might very well be past its expiration date.
It would indeed surprise me as well if active groups today starts just introlinking games that do need trainers, levelpacking, onefiling etc. just to gain points. As Hedning said; If some idiots start to try to piss on the lists and so on, we can just agree ignoring them, like we already do with fake group stuff.
Sounds like a plan. Glad something constructive came out of this occasionally heated discussion. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
glad u guys found an agreement. :)
what I don't like, but it's just my humble ignorant ignorable opinion, is that c64 1st release rules come straight from the pc 0day world.
dunno if you adopted them to put some order, or whatever was the reason... in the old glory cracking days there was no need for that: first not crashing version on the oversea boards and you won. ok, everything changes and evolves, so I guess whether I like that or not I should respect those rules too.
I think the first time I saw some written draft rules was with Gamers Guide or? perhaps the Triad dudez can help my memory. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
ZeSmasher: Gamers Guide was not focused on firstreleases at all, it had a whole other approach. Something similar would be hard to implement today, as there presently is no "mailscene" to talk about.
I guess Shock or perhaps Mamba was first when it comes to firstrelease rules. |
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Smasher
Registered: Feb 2003
Posts: 512 |
yes, GG was comparing size and trainers - true! damn exomizer for killing all the fun, lol!
I don't remember such rules in Mamba, at least not in the [C] years. charts were based on votesheets. |
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