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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
Release id #147008 : Ring on a String +
Quoting User Comment
Submitted by hedning on 4 April 2016
Didi: Problem with your argument with Monster Buster is that Onslaught won that race with this equally untrained release (they were first on the majority of boards): Monster Buster - then they uploaded a new trained version later on.
Well, from my memory the trained version of Monster Buster was uploaded to the boards as well to prevent anyone to grab the points through the quality rule (a fact which is not documented by any post), and secure the firstie.
With the argument of being uploaded to the majority of boards you could have got any of our this years RGCD releases, because The Hidden was offline that night. Just wait until it is back and upload to all 3 and get away with it. That's why it is not the way I handle it. Majority is being first on 2 of 3 within 24h. And who was first can be seen in the directory listing on the board.
Well, for me it's the quality rule which fits this release and justifies giving the points to Excess here. Different mag editors have always had different ways to handle releases. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11114 |
loldrama |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
<Post edited by hedning on 4/4-2016 21:27>
All releases were released to the boards, in that you are right, but only because they are not released otherwise, and you can easily check out VN and The List online, and Jazzcat awarded ONS the first release due to the 24h rule, and he links the untrained version. That is a fact. The trained version is irrelevant for the status as first release. Laxity got points for the NTSC fixing of the game, and has nothing to do with the trainers.
I would say Jazzcat (and you) would be inconsistent if you accept the outcome of that case, but not the recent situation between Triad and Excess.
That said, I would never argue if the game had obvious need of training. This dicussion is active due to that this situation is (gladly) rare.
When it comes to the boards it's first on three boards within 24h, and The Hidden was back half of this time - just as many hours Colosseum was online (it was offline during the early morning to April 1nd (shut down by the sysop according to a user who was online trying to upload a release)) and Triad had no problem being first on all three boards within 24 hours, something Excess had problems with. Their release was uploaded to The Hidden ~26 hours after Triad's release, and before that time The Hidden had been back since ~12 hours.
It's a quite easy case for me. You can say whatever you want about Triad's release, but there is no real need of a trainer, and the case reminds me a lot like the Monster Buster case 3 years ago, where an untrained release of that game was ranked as the first release. + the fact that Triad had their release on all boards within 24 hours. Excess uploaded their version after that time span.
This discussion is not personal. It's just a need to discuss the rules so that we don't fall into three different first releases in three mags. First is first. It's really that simple. Lame releases can be put aside if they are not seriously meant, but if you really release lame releases you have to live with the consequence. |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Oh, and smartass comments from people that really don't care about this issue is not needed. You can rant on IRC. OKthxbye. |
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Didi
Registered: Nov 2011
Posts: 479 |
Refering to my information Stormfront had no possiblity to stay within the 24h when he got the release from Nimbus, as all 3 boards were unreachable for hours at the time he tried to upload it, so he told me. (All 3 boards seem to be quite unstable at the moment.) So he just posted it here, which was way within the 24h. No reason for re-release points for sure because it was a technical issue. The Hidden just came back as first after the 24h timeframe was already up.
Excess gave a reason for claiming the Triad release being invalid. For me this reason is OK the way I interpret the rules. IMO the trainer rule was made to uphold a minimum quality level. And in this spirit I accept the reason from Excess. There have always been different interpretations about the sense of trainers but they were installed anyway. If in doubt, just add a trainer and you are on the safe side.
Regarding being first on all 3 boards: You can only upload on reachable boards. There have been a lot of times where only 1 or 2 of the boards were available. Your interpretation opens the possibility to upload on all 3 way after the 24h, even if only 1 was availbale for 24h. In this case the single upload there will count, even if someone else uploads on all 3 more than a day later. ACK? |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Didi: No. All boards were up at different times within the 24h time frame, which is the time frame I refer to. I am not opening up to anything else. Single upload will only count if only 1 board was available in the 24h time frame.
Antidote was available all the time, and as you can see in The Hidden logs Triad uploaded their version early april 1st if I remember correct. I was also online during the day and evening. You uploaded your stuff before the 24h time was up, right?
If only two boards are online when you upload you have to check the third all day, until 24h have passed, after that you are safe. Thug life. |
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taper
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 119 |
Again, Didi is not reading what other people say but interpreting things his own way.
Hedning described it perfectly fine the first time around [about the boards], and still he had to clarify himself since you simply do not listen.
Again, hilarious that you used Monster Buster as an example to back up your interpretation of the rule - that one backfired quite nicely, don't you think?
I just interpret the given rules the way they are written and I was not the one who created them. But I accept that there are different opinions here which do not come together in this case.
You are not interpreting the rules the way they were written, you are interpreting them to your own liking. Unlike you, I was involved when that rule was created - so perhaps you should listen more closely to what I'm saying.
If in doubt, just add a trainer and you are on the safe side.
No, Didi. As I said before, we will not add trainers just for the sake of getting points in Game Corner. We add trainers when we think there is a point in adding them. Just as the rule you keep referring to actually states...
It's not my headache if you put the credability of Game Corner on the line, but you can forget us adapting to your skewed view of the rules. |
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sailor
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 90 |
"If in doubt, just add a trainer and you are on the safe side."
No. In my opinion a trainer should have a valid reason and usage. You don't slam a trainer just because. What we gonna see next, a trained Winter Games ? :) |
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Mason
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 459 |
Problem is the 2003 rules is too complex and complicated. Especially it's hard to judge when a release is better than another and if a trainer is useable or not.
The old system was more logical as first release was a first release except it was broken/bad cracked or the first released was a pre-release/beta-release
If you want to differ between the quality releases and first releases it needs 2 charts. One chart where you get points for the first release and one where everyone can compete to do the best quality release |
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hedning
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4595 |
Quote: Problem is the 2003 rules is too complex and complicated. Especially it's hard to judge when a release is better than another and if a trainer is useable or not.
The old system was more logical as first release was a first release except it was broken/bad cracked or the first released was a pre-release/beta-release
If you want to differ between the quality releases and first releases it needs 2 charts. One chart where you get points for the first release and one where everyone can compete to do the best quality release
We had that approach in Propaganda, and will have again. |
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