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2007-04-10 01:11

Moloch

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2893

Group id #4751 : Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club

This is a user group and _not_ a scene group... why is there an entry for it here?

... 36 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2007-04-10 08:32

Jon
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247

How often do you go to Cinci?

2007-04-10 08:45

BAR.
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324

Jon,

why should i go to Cinci, USA ?
Do you visit CCCC meetings in your land ?

2007-04-10 09:01

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Maybe I'm wrong here but, that CMN dude has a couple of scene related functions (and as Baracuda mentioned, he also made disk covers, graphics or sth like that). Consequently, he should have a place in the database. And if CMN considers CCCC as his "group", well, that should be also indicated somehow regardless if the other "members" are just a bunch of old C64 nostalgics who wank to Geos and organize meetings...
Well, just my 2 cents. I should drink my coffee now :)

2007-04-10 09:02

Twoflower

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 434

A scener is a person actively participating in (or aiming towards participating in) what we tend to call the scene. The scene is a pretty open structure in itself, but it seems to have some restrictions. First of all, there is a tradition of using handles, aliases ment for shrouding your identity, creating a myth and distancing it from the ordinary world out there. In the old days these handles were a pure necessity for the illegal side of the scene, to obscure their identity from softwarehouses and their legal actions.

Furthermore, the scene has very little connection to the commercial interests of the C-64 community, even if notable exceptions are known to have existed. The best example of this might be the people active on the Compunet, a forum which developed the demo and which spawned a lot of creating people making games. Ash+Dave, Ian+Mic, Reptilia Designs, Bob Stevenson and Dokk might be mentioned. But eventhough these individual persons might be seen as sceners, the companies they joined or built are not.

Third, people involved in the scene usually has an active focus on either the legal (demo) scene, the illegal (cracking) scene or both. Lately, we even got a kind of hangaround sceners who mostly mouth their opinions on webforums and IRC. These show an interest in participating in the above mentioned events, although are to lazy or busy bragging about themseves to participate.

As a scener, you usually have a role to fulfill, organizing yourselves into groups. Groups are the very fundement of the scene. A group is usually a tight-knit constellation of people with different functions. In my case, I am concidered a graphician (and in rare occations cracker and musician), but you can be a coder, musician, trader - any function that furthers the groups interest towards the legal or illegal scene.

To clarify my statement:

The "Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club" does not fit in to any of the above cathegories. They aren't a group, they doesn't contribute towards the demoscene nor the illegal side of the scene. The difference between CCCC and the Driven Staff is that the Driven Staff was using handles, making a magazine aimed towards the scene and reporting about it. And no - The Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club doesn't belong here, and will probably never. This is the Commodore SCENE Database. For a definition of the scene, read above.

2007-04-10 09:08

jailbird

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 1576

Twoflower, you have convinced me. They should go :)

Edit: I mean, CCCC as a group should go, CMN has a place here as an individual in case he was involved in scene related activities. I think we all agree on that, right?

2007-04-10 11:20

Compyx

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 631

I agree, get rid of CCCC, before we get more entries of Commodore user groups. There's a shitload of 'em, just check comp.sys.cbm ;)

2007-04-10 12:06

CreaMD

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3034

Quote: A scener is a person actively participating in (or aiming towards participating in) what we tend to call the scene. The scene is a pretty open structure in itself, but it seems to have some restrictions. First of all, there is a tradition of using handles, aliases ment for shrouding your identity, creating a myth and distancing it from the ordinary world out there. In the old days these handles were a pure necessity for the illegal side of the scene, to obscure their identity from softwarehouses and their legal actions.

Furthermore, the scene has very little connection to the commercial interests of the C-64 community, even if notable exceptions are known to have existed. The best example of this might be the people active on the Compunet, a forum which developed the demo and which spawned a lot of creating people making games. Ash+Dave, Ian+Mic, Reptilia Designs, Bob Stevenson and Dokk might be mentioned. But eventhough these individual persons might be seen as sceners, the companies they joined or built are not.

Third, people involved in the scene usually has an active focus on either the legal (demo) scene, the illegal (cracking) scene or both. Lately, we even got a kind of hangaround sceners who mostly mouth their opinions on webforums and IRC. These show an interest in participating in the above mentioned events, although are to lazy or busy bragging about themseves to participate.

As a scener, you usually have a role to fulfill, organizing yourselves into groups. Groups are the very fundement of the scene. A group is usually a tight-knit constellation of people with different functions. In my case, I am concidered a graphician (and in rare occations cracker and musician), but you can be a coder, musician, trader - any function that furthers the groups interest towards the legal or illegal scene.

To clarify my statement:

The "Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club" does not fit in to any of the above cathegories. They aren't a group, they doesn't contribute towards the demoscene nor the illegal side of the scene. The difference between CCCC and the Driven Staff is that the Driven Staff was using handles, making a magazine aimed towards the scene and reporting about it. And no - The Cincinnati Commodore Computer Club doesn't belong here, and will probably never. This is the Commodore SCENE Database. For a definition of the scene, read above.

Good explanation. I agree with your points.

I wonder what Wrath Designers think about the part about identity since they have got rid of the handles here in the CSDB.

2007-04-10 13:53

Six

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 287

CCCC is one of the few US user groups that promotes "scene" style activities in the US.

A number of scene people (including myself) are also members of CCCC.

CCCC's monthly newsletter tends to contain a lot of scene-related news, including sections on new demos released, new games released by sceners, upcoming compos, etc...

Finally, from time to time, CCCC does put out scene productions, such as invite-tros for the get-togethers.

Most of this can't be said about other US usergroups, so IMHO, CCCC is a valid entry here, while most other US usergroups would not be.

To say that CCCC is just a bunch of old farts who get together and "wank over GEOS" is simply wrong.

2007-04-10 15:15

Jon
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2005
Posts: 247

Six-

Perhaps, in the interest of "validating" the CCCC within the scene here on the CSDb and the greater scene as it were, you might wish to consider uploading more of the invites and CCCC related "scene" materials.

Y'know, give the CCCC some more "street cred".

-Ninj

2007-04-10 17:05

BAR.
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 324

Ninjasbane,
stop leeching and accept the facts..
Six mustn't give the CCCC some more "street cred" in my eyes..
Enjoy the release he add. But i'm sure there will be more after the meeting. :-)

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