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2011-05-08 15:10

v3to

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 150

Double Screen Compo Voting

Okay - all entries are in and it is time for voting.

Take your time and check the pictures properly. If you like to check it on a C64, I'd recommend to turn off the volume, because music tends to alter atmosphere. Now here come the rules:

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CHOOSE 3 FAVORITES - NO MORE - NO LESS
SEND YOUR CHOICE VIA PM TO ENTHUSI OR ME
OR BY MAIL TO << COMPO[AT SPAMSUCKS]C64PIXELS[DOT]COM >>
PLEASE DO NOT FORGET YOUR HANDLE/GROUP OR NAME
---

Deadline for voting is June 7th 2011 (know it is a long term but c64pixels-visitors are watching random)

Good luck to all contestants !

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Looking Outward by Celtic, code by Zielok
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Format: MultiColor

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Monroe 6569 by Diggr
Format: Charmode

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Asteroidmine by Grass, code by Cruzer
Format: MultiColor

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The Raven by Dane
Additional content according compo rules: Dark red and dark grey are laced
Format: MultiColor

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CARGO by Twoflower, code by Cruzer
Additional content according compo rules: Music
Picture format: MultiColor, 4-colors, Colorscheme is matching Charmode

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A Kind of Magic by Yazoo, code by Axis
Additional content according compo rules: Music, scrolltext (can be disabled by pressing spacebar)
Picture format: MultiColor

... 195 posts hidden. Click here to view all posts....

2011-05-09 11:45

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

I'd like to add that yes, i did a copy, but before enterring i explained to veto how i did the pic, and asked if it was appropriate. Also my pic is tagged on c64pixels with the original artist and production company so it can easily be found.

Yes, i copy, and therefor a pic by f.e. Grass is way more impressive then mine.

I would like to state that most 98% of the pics i do are wirejobs/converts etc.etc. I still spend hours and hours on them refining, adding pixels, removing pixels, etc. but i wanted it out there so i dont get accused for anything in the future.

and lastly: besides 4 or 5 extremely gifted pixellers like mermaid and i think STE , I think loads of people use this method. I am wondering who would like to claim or state that they never do this r have done it.

2011-05-09 11:48

Ksubi
Account closed

Registered: Nov 2007
Posts: 87

Maybe next time the competition could be of one default picture and everyone does their own version of it? Anyway, some fine art work here, congrats to everyone who entered.

2011-05-09 11:51

Digger

Registered: Mar 2005
Posts: 422

Guys, chillax a bit before the flamewar begins again. It's all about fun.

The original author of my pic (NOEEKO) was listed under the entry on the c64pixels.com website so it was no secret it was a convert from the very beginning.

Now, the trick is how do you squeeze thousands (if not million) colours palette into 11 colours (hires/multi char mode) and still preserve the high quality of the original image. It took me a lot of hours (besides coding my own pixel editor and displayer) to tidy up pixels and make the details looking good. Haven't added anything from myself as I wasn't supposed to have asked the author for permission to USE his work but nor REMIX.

I made the pic merely to challenge myself in the strange mode and after 12 years of not pixelling anything.

2011-05-09 12:04

Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335

Cruzer: In general I agree (especially the bit about showing the original right away), but I'm not convinced that it is ok to submit a copy to a graphics competition. I still have a problem with that - I'm fairly sure most people don't just look at the pixeling and execution when they judge a picture, they also look at the motif, the composition etc. - no matter how impressive a c64 copy is technically it is still a copy of someone else's work. To me personally it is infinitely more interesting to see a picture that someone came up with themselves, even if the anatomy is a bit off.

Celtic: I don't believe that "almost everyone does it anyway" is a good excuse. Yes, by all means go ahead and copy (and I mean *copy*, not retouch scans) great artists, that is a great way to get better at drawing and learning about anatomy and such. I have no problem with that, it'd be nice to see the original pics though. But is it really necessary to submit those (practice) copies to a competition and possibly beat people who came up with their own motives from scratch? Why not come up with something yourself?

2011-05-09 12:18

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

Quote: Cruzer: In general I agree (especially the bit about showing the original right away), but I'm not convinced that it is ok to submit a copy to a graphics competition. I still have a problem with that - I'm fairly sure most people don't just look at the pixeling and execution when they judge a picture, they also look at the motif, the composition etc. - no matter how impressive a c64 copy is technically it is still a copy of someone else's work. To me personally it is infinitely more interesting to see a picture that someone came up with themselves, even if the anatomy is a bit off.

Celtic: I don't believe that "almost everyone does it anyway" is a good excuse. Yes, by all means go ahead and copy (and I mean *copy*, not retouch scans) great artists, that is a great way to get better at drawing and learning about anatomy and such. I have no problem with that, it'd be nice to see the original pics though. But is it really necessary to submit those (practice) copies to a competition and possibly beat people who came up with their own motives from scratch? Why not come up with something yourself?

Before i say anything: we are all old enough to make this an interesting discussion without flamewars or angry comments. So i am quite sure that wont happen. Besides, i think all participating posters have a pretty decent relationship with eachother, no angryness or hatred there.
Perhaps it is time to have another of these discussion, it's been a while.

Mermaid: perhaps it is not a good excuse. But i dont use it as an excuse. I do this pixelling for fun, and i think it is fun to make something that looks nice, wethere it is mine or not. And well, when they would be 100% mine, usually they suck donkey balls :) but thats a whole other thing.

But yes, maybe i should rethink my enterring future competitions, coz in the end in this compo i admire Yazoo's and Grass's handyworks the most. I guess in the end it is a question of ethics, and i will need to think about it, wether or not i should be enterring or not.

Also, i think this discussion is good because for the next competitions the rules should state some clarity about this way of pixelling, and how it effects the competition.

Lastly: my pic took me about 12-14 hours (this is an estimate) to complete. a lot of time pixelling the errors out, making it looks nice, and well, i call it repixelling. The sides are mine, but indeed that was a minimal effort, and not worth taking into account.

lastly2: vanja, could you make a fading pic (from original to c64 pic) for mine like you did with Dane's. I am trying to do that myself, but it aint working, and i would really like to see how that would look :)

2011-05-09 12:21

Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335

Quote:

I made the pic merely to challenge myself in the strange mode and after 12 years of not pixelling anything.

That's fine, but then the picture you made to challenge yourself somehow ended up in a graphics competition, and that's the part that some people obviously have a problem with.

2011-05-09 12:28

hedning

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 4614

My primary idea about gfx-compos is that the artists make their own original pictures. He och she can of course use a lot of techniques and platforms to create the base for it, as long as the artist actually creates a unique picture. He and she can be inspired by various sources: be it Vallejo, Alien-movies, zombies, Marilyn Monroe, sci-fi, whatever, and also partly resemble original work by another artist, as long as the artist did not copy the whole idea, motif, composition and everything.

It may be interesting in another way how to make the best conversion of a already existing piece of art to the c64, but then it is wrong to put in in the same compo as original pieces of art on the c64. I don't say that it's easy doing great conversions, but a conversion or copy is another thing than doing a unique piece of art - therefore they cannot compete with eachother.

I do understand that some of the competitors did show their sources, and was open with it. That's good, but still a lot of voters will say "Now, that's awesome gfx!" and vote for a copy thinking it is original work.

2011-05-09 12:34

Mermaid

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 335

Celtic: Sure, I'll do a gif for you. And I don't mean to flame anyone really.

Celtic, I think you give yourself too little credit, I think you could come up with something great on your own if you give yourself the time. If you have 12-14 hours to spend on touching up a scan, you should have 12-14 hours to invest in something original too.

I know it's scary to do something on your own and no one wants to be ridiculed for the work they do. But hey, babysteps, you can do it. Go from touching up and colouring scans to copying pictures you like by hand. Yes, the copies won't be perfect then, but there will be more of *you* in them, and you will get better, and eventually you will move on to creating collages where you copy bits from different pictures and try to make them fit together nicely (again I mean copying *by hand* here) and hey, those pics will have even more of you in them, and one day you will find that you don't always need to copy, that you know now what works and what you can do.

It's like learning to ride a bike in a way. Pure converts is a bit like sitting in your dad's bicycle basket. Retouching a scan is more like riding a tricycle. Copying something by hand is like riding a bike with support wheels. So get off the tricycle and give that bike with support wheels a try.

2011-05-09 12:50

Celtic
Administrator

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 807

I must say thats a pretty sweet metaphor you're using, kudosfor that :)

perhpas i should indeed step onto the bike... we'll see about that one. Thanks for taking the time to make the gif!

2011-05-09 13:16

Yazoo

Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 227

hehe celtic :) so you admired grass's or my pic the most? may i remind you of your comment for diggers picture?

Celtic:
"My personal favourite, even with the new entries by Yazoo and Twoflower (which are completely awesome aswell). This one just kicks ass. It is great to have Digger back, and even better his gfx are awesome! Well done sir!"

don't take it serious :) for me it is absolutely ok, you like another picture better. i just couldnt resist to quote, when i read your post ;-)

eventually i will add something to this discussion myself later on or tonight. this discussion is not too unimportant i think.

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