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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
The C64 Grand Tour Challenge
Hey everyone,
I wanted a new year challenge for 2021. The idea is to compose 1 music per each month of the year. Yeah, it's nothing special, right?
So to spice it up, each month I'm going to use a different editor/player.
Now it sounds like some nice fun that I don't want to keep for myself only.
Composers, join me!
List of editors and rules to follow:
Jan: GMC V2 (GMC V2 (Unfinished))
Feb: SID Factory 2 (PC) (https://blog.chordian.net/sf2/ build 20200911)
Mar: Ninja Tracker 2.04 (C64) (NinjaTracker V2.04)
Apr: Defmon (C64) (defMON V20201008)
May: Goat Tracker 2.75 (PC) (GoatTracker V2.75)
Jun: DMC 7 (C64) (DMC 7.0)
Jul: Virtuoso 1.02 (C64) (Virtuoso V1.02)
Aug: X-SID (C64) (X-SID)
Sep: Cheesecutter 2.9.0 (PC) (CheeseCutter 2.9.0)
Oct: Sosperec 1.0 (C64) (Sosperec Editor V1.0)
Nov: SDI 2.17 (C64) (SID Duzz' It V2.1.7)
Dec: SID-Wizard 1.8 (C64) (SID-Wizard V1.8)
Rules:
- Use the linked version of the actual editor only (compatibility)
- 1 SID, 1x speed only
- Track length: please keep it within the usual limits. Not too short, not too long, make it as long as a regular composition would be.
- 1 track per month with the specified tool
- If the editor saves to a format where player is included, use address $1000
- Deadline: last day of the actual month, at midnight
- Send your projectfiles to: strayboom()gmail()com
I don't plan voting, this supposed to be a motivational-fun-self-challenge only. Do it for your own good or don't do it at all. Still, there will be a progress bar with the completed entries.
If there's enough tracks, I'll make a compilation in a form of musicdisk or music mix, etc.
There might be a huuuuuge - or small - C64 musicdisk release of all tracks at the end of the year/early next year. We'll see.
Sincerely,
vincenzo /Lethargy^Singular^SIDRIP^Rebels^Molecoola |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1831 |
Are participants supposed to release on a monthly player base then? Sounds like it. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Are participants supposed to release on a monthly player base then? Sounds like it.
Yes, that's correct, 1 track per month. I'm not saying it's doable but I challenge myself and we'll see how it turns out. I must emphasize it, this is NOT a competition, "only" a challenge. |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
Sounds like a hell of a challenge...
Count me in bro'! |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
you are not mentioning ems by cosine ?
so good it was even used to make music in a system 3 game ? ;-)
seriously...
EMS V7.03 |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: you are not mentioning ems by cosine ?
so good it was even used to make music in a system 3 game ? ;-)
seriously...
EMS V7.03
I could have include a lot more editors/players, for example JCH, Future Composer, Music Assembly, etc, etc. for sure. I did not.
12 different editors, 12 months, 1 track per month. It's a hard enough challenge already. |
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Alta
Registered: Dec 2010
Posts: 9 |
@vincenzo I'll try to get you an editor for the Bullshit player as well just to add to your pressure ;) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
a very wacko selection of trackers there, 3 of which I've never even heard of, but your compo, your rules :) bring it on, you lazy musician
PS: Thanks - in the name of Mayday! - for putting GT in May! Might do some motivational troll entry then :D |
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Count Zero
Registered: Jan 2003
Posts: 1831 |
"this is NOT a competition, "only" a challenge." |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
whoooa we need a new event category, "challenge" *scnr* |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: a very wacko selection of trackers there, 3 of which I've never even heard of, but your compo, your rules :) bring it on, you lazy musician
PS: Thanks - in the name of Mayday! - for putting GT in May! Might do some motivational troll entry then :D
This list is just as wacko as any other list would be. Name 10 of the best movies of all time, for example. Probably your list would be different than mine.
This is still not a competition, looks like I need to emphasize it over and over because nobody seem to get it. It's a personal challenge, or even bucket list that I thought would be fun for others too. You don't have to join, you don't have to do anything, don't have to observe the outcome if you are here to mock it only.
Also, it's not actually a challenge if you only make music with an editor that you are familiar with, isn't it?
I never used majority of these editors, for example never did anything in GoatTracker or CheeseCutter. However, they seem to be interesting (and popular) enough to me so I want to give them a try at least.
It's a good opportunity to learn something new and evolve both technically and musically. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 838 |
Here's the fun part: Make the worst tune ever in your most popular choice of editor. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
@vincenzo: Nice challenge! I won't join personally, but if more people do and you guys reach April/defMON, don't hesitate to send me questions over PM about how things work. Documentation is limited.
If there is enough interest, maybe I could even have something like a little workshop over Zoom for a small group of people, where I give a very quick introduction to the use of defMON. Just to get people over the initial threshold, to get going. We'll see. |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3142 |
Quote: Here's the fun part: Make the worst tune ever in your most popular choice of editor.
please no, there are enough crap tunes in HVSC already, no need to make them bad intentionally =) |
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chancer
Registered: Apr 2003
Posts: 346 |
so I can make a test tone.. in all editors ? and some saddo will upvote it.. seems legit :D
joking, (though someone will get angry at that comment no doubt) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
The C64 Grand Tour - January 2020 - GMC V2
January 2021 is over, 2 composers successfully completed this month's GrandTour Challenge where they had to use GMC V2 and compose a music with it.
CSDB: Improvatorus Maximus
Disk content: 1-1 music by NecroPolo and Vincenzo, GMC V2 Editor, 1-1 worktunes that can be loaded into the editor.
February's player is SID Factory II.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdcx4r9MMxQ (vincenzo) |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3142 |
Don't throw all releases in 1 entry, please.
Make 1 entry for each release, not 1 entry for all the releases, then you can create an event entry where all the single music releases are linked to the event.
It would be different if it was a music selector, but the d64 has 2 different entries loadable by themselves only so they can't be considered a single release. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Don't throw all releases in 1 entry, please.
Make 1 entry for each release, not 1 entry for all the releases, then you can create an event entry where all the single music releases are linked to the event.
It would be different if it was a music selector, but the d64 has 2 different entries loadable by themselves only so they can't be considered a single release.
Please feel free to do it. It's better if someone with the right knowledge does it.
Thank you. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
February's Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - February 2021
Anyone who wants to participate, please use SID Factory II build 20210104! (https://blog.chordian.net/sf2/) |
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JCH
Registered: Aug 2008
Posts: 193 |
Are composers allowed to only participate one month in the editor they're used to? I guess he or she would have to do all months to be part of the actual challenge? |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Are composers allowed to only participate one month in the editor they're used to? I guess he or she would have to do all months to be part of the actual challenge?
Anybody can join whenever they feel it's the right time and there's only this rule: use the respective month's editor/player and release a music in that specific month created with that specific editor/player.
If you think about it, this is about challenging yourself and trying to break out of your own box. I felt I'm stuck with my compositions and needed something to spice it up so the idea of this challenge born. Not everyone wants (needs) the same challenge so I don't expect many releases. However, more than 1 release per month is welcome, whichever month and editor/player it is. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
Great January delivery, Vincenzo and Necropolo! |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Great January delivery, Vincenzo and Necropolo!
Thanks! There's still 11 months left, wanna join us? :) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
February's entries are out now: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - February 2021
Thanks to NecroPolo and da Blondie for sending their tracks.
The editor for March is Ninja Tracker.
The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - March 2021 |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
2 tracks for March, made with Ninja Tracker has been released today: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - March 2021
Event page for April: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - April 2021 |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1293 |
You gotta compile full music disk after whole tour ;) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quoting JammerYou gotta compile full music disk after whole tour ;)
It's part of the plan :)
I hope to see more musicians joining us in the next Month(s). Would be an awesome musicdisk, gathering the active musicians of the scene together in a compilation. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Alright.. so April is defMON month if I understood correctly. Will be interesting to see what comes out of that. :) |
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Frostbyte
Registered: Aug 2003
Posts: 174 |
Sosperec is an interesting choice, never heard about it. Not much information about it out there either. Seems like it's derived from DMC, but which version? What are the differences / improvements vs. DMC? |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Sosperec is an interesting choice, never heard about it. Not much information about it out there either. Seems like it's derived from DMC, but which version? What are the differences / improvements vs. DMC?
I have not much information about Sosperec' origin. All I know is that it's an earlier editor than DMC. Probably there's a connection because both coders, Grabowsky (Sosperec) and Brian (GMC, DMC) are from Hungary, and they were teammates in Graffity. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Alright.. so April is defMON month if I understood correctly. Will be interesting to see what comes out of that. :)
Yes, it's Defmon time! Please expect numerous messages from me soon :) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
If there is enough interest — let's say, four persons or more — I could set up a little defMON workshop at 7 PM (Swedish time = GMT+2) tomorrow Monday, using Zoom. I would start by saying just a few general introductory words about defMON, and then we would dive straight into the things you need to know to get going.
Like.. press this key to get from here to there, put these numbers there to set up the sound, press that key to start playing, etc. The simple stuff. I will assume that all participants download defMON V20201008 and run it on their own machine during the workshop, so you can try things out hands on.
Would some of you guys be interested in that? The impetus for doing this is of course the C64 Grand Tour Challenge, and the fact that defMON is the editor of the month in this challenge. However, the workshop itself would not be tied to the challenge, so even if you don't have plans to participate in that challenge, you can of course still join the workshop if you just happen to be curious about getting a glimpse of how defMON works.
So.. If you are interested in this, send me a PM to sign up before 3 PM (GMT+2) tomorrow Monday. If we reach four participants, I'll get back to you with the link that you need to join the workshop. If we don't reach five participants, I'll just post a message here in this thread to say that there will be no workshop. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quoting FranticIf there is enough interest...
Thank you Frantic, I'm definitely interested. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
One person (vincenzo) signed up for the workshop, so it is hereby cancelled. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
GTC04 - April: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - April 2021
NecroPolo: Anticitizen 64
Vincenzo: Broken Tractorbeam
Thank you Frantic for the crash-course and thank you for Defmon. It seriously rules.
Event page for May: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - May 2021
Editor to use: GoatTracker V2.75 |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Big thumbs up for that! It was fun hearing what came out of it. Nice stuff from both of you guys! :D It was also good to hear that you found the editor inspiring. As far as I can tell, both of you guys "got it" and that made me really happy to see.
@necropolo: You are right there isn't the kind of sequence transpose that I think you're referring to in the scroll text (e.g. like in the JCH editor where a specific sequence can be played with different transpose values at different places in the song). There is something called "super commands" though which lets you (among other things) transpose a sequence (or a part of it) by modifying the actual sequence data. So if you first copy the "old" sequence into a "new" one, you can then transpose the data in the new one. Described here:
https://www.vandervecken.com/defmon/doku.php?id=docs:supercomma.. |
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NecroPolo
Registered: Jun 2009
Posts: 231 |
@Frantic: Thanks for the info! I'll definitely steal this UFO with "defMON" sticker on it to fly again somewhere in the future :)
I know that I could only scratch the surface. So far I could realise that there are tricks, shortcuts and smart workarounds here and there just it works different. The whole tracker works different from anything else I know. Still it feels to be a familiar tool if you know what I mean as everything has its place, everything has its clear logic behind. It was a very odd, very out-of-comfortzone and very exciting journey. For me, the most exciting / eye opening one so far in this challenge.
So, as for a final word, hats off to you, mate! Re-inventing the wheel is not a small task and exactly that's what happening in defMON. |
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DubDee
Registered: Sep 2020
Posts: 6 |
I really like Vincenzo's defMON tune! So bad I missed that month as I have some banging DnB-tunes laying arround =) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1293 |
Goat Tracker this month! C'mon, fuckers, that you can do! :D |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
Pity that Blackbird 1.2 didn't make it into the list. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Pity that Blackbird 1.2 didn't make it into the list.
There are only 12 months in the year, so yeah, many editor/player didn't make it to the list. Maybe next year.
But honestly, does it make sense to include any, even more popular editors if there's nobody to make a music monthly..? |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
I simply assumed that the idea behind the challenge was to bring interesting-yet-not-commonly-used editors to the table, which is why I thought Blackbird 1.2 could see fit. Although, as a defMON V20201008 user myself, I'm more than glad it was given a try. Always good to see how others approach this particular tracker "behind the scenes". |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: I simply assumed that the idea behind the challenge was to bring interesting-yet-not-commonly-used editors to the table, which is why I thought Blackbird 1.2 could see fit. Although, as a defMON V20201008 user myself, I'm more than glad it was given a try. Always good to see how others approach this particular tracker "behind the scenes".
No, not exactly. The original idea doesn't really have to do anything with the public, originally I was trying to force myself to be more active and break out of my own little box because I felt I got stuck on a level without evolving further.
After ~10 years of hiatus I came back to SID composing and it seemed to be a good idea to experiment with other editors than SID-Wizard. The list contains editors that I heard about (I used Ninja, DMC and SW before), or seemed interesting enough to give them a test.
I had a longer list, of course. It included Future Composer, Music Assembly, and many more. How did I come up with this 12? Well, after I realied this might be an idea for the public too, I revisited the list with NecroPolo and basically that's it.
Yeah, it's a personal list, it's not easy to meet with people's taste but at least we started this challenge and so far each month was quite interesting and I already learned a lot about the SID and various editors. I try to believe my musical skills also evolved to the next level, but let the listener be the judge of this.
Honestly, I'm a bit disappointed that this turned out to be a personal challenge of NecroPolo and me only (hello da Blondie, thanks for February's entry!). Seeing that various CSDB music competitions have more than 30-40-50 entries, I expected that musicians will be more interested to join us.
I understand that it's not easy to get out of the comfort zone, sometimes people don't even have time to make some music (well, have you seen 1983 compo..?). But again, I myself can't really spend more than 2-3 afternoons per month to test, learn and compose a music with an editor that I'm completely unfamiliar with. And of course, a couple of days are simply not enough to get the best out of the month's editor. It's enough for scratching the surface and make a fairly decent track.
I also understand this might not be everyone's cup of tea, however, it's a challenge and in my opinion it's interesting enough to give it a try at least with the editor that you are familiar with, or with the editor that seems interesting.
Since this challenge has started, I found some great tools like SID Factory II and defMON, but if I'm 100% honest, all of the editors have something unique that makes them worth for a testride.
I truly hope this makes sense and I can inspire more composers to join the challenge. Even if the result is not your usual best, the experience of learning something new and/or finding out something that you didn't know about the SID is priceless. |
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F7sus4
Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 113 |
That's a good thing to hear and I wholeheartedly agree with the comfort zone part. So to speak, I also remember talking to some people around and hearing "Whoa, I guess I really need to put my fingers on defMON soon" from time to time, but yet that really never happened. So I guess, that's just pretty much the same thing as with any other music software we use on a daily basis - we choose the interface that we feel the most fluent with, even if there are obvious limitations (of said software) involved. Whether a month is enough to "click" with a new editor or not (considering there are limited amounts of time available, as you mentioned) is probably another factor.
If that changes anything post-factum, I'm open to share defMON sources to my tunes (other than those already included as a tutorial). |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
3 releases for May 2021 are now online: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - May 2021
Thank you to Jammer and NecroPolo for participating and supporting "the cause" :)
June's event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - June 2021
June's editor: DMC 7.0 |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
June's Grand Tour Challenge is over, we received 2 entries as usual:
NecroPolo: Aegis VII
Vincenzo: Seven Nights Awake
Event's page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - June 2021
Next month's editor: Virtuoso V1.02
July's event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - July 2021
C'mon lazy musicians, join us :) |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Will be interesting to hear what comes out of Virtuoso, and perhaps also to hear what you think about it. I haven't heard much talk about that editor at all, but I am sure it must have its virtues — of some sort or another. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Another month is gone (c'mon 2021, slow down please...), another music editor has been explored.
Results:
NecroPolo - Experiment: Zeta
Vincenzo - One Hit Wonder
Next month's editor: X-SID
Next month's event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - August 2021 |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
September 2021, The Grand Tour Challenge continues: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - August 2021
Releases:
NecroPolo - Snowpiercer
Vincenzo - Positivity
Next month's editor: CheeseCutter 2.9.0
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - September 2021 |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
compo has devoloped to a Magyar Duel between Necropolo and you.
Anyway, keep em coming, guys
signed, a fan |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Yes, good stuff! |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
The Magyar Duel continues in September, this time with CheeseCutter.
NecroPolo: Grove Street 69
Vincenzo: Cheetah Boi
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - September 2021
Next month's editor is SID Duzz' It V2.1.7
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - October 2021 |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
We actually messed up the order of months and editors. In October we should have work with Sosperec, but then we ended up with SDI. Aaaaanyway, challenge of October is complete and we'll switch to Sosperec in November.
NecroPolo: Deepstalker
Vincenzo: Butterfly Effect
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - October 2021
Next month's editor: Sosperec Editor V1.0
Next month's event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - November 2021 |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Sosperec will be interesting. :) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Quote: Sosperec will be interesting. :)
Yes Frantic, it was definitely an "interesting" experience :)
TL;DR I'm not going to touch Sosperec ever again.
So, November is over, The Challenge/Duel continues.
NecroPolo: Trabant 601
Vincenzo: Nightmare
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - November 2021
December's Challenge, eventpage: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - December 2021
December's editor: SID-Wizard V1.8 |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 452 |
I just wanted to say, that I found this a really great idea and would have wanted to participate if my real life wasn't so "unpredictable" (aka 3 year old daughter) at the moment and it's not a good time to meet monthly "deadlines" [ you can ask by boss about that :P ]...
I have deep respect for you: Vincenzo and NecroPolo delivering great tunes with other trackers every month this year! |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2101 |
I add that I keep following your monthly two entries, mostly a blast of quality, huge respect for f***ing around with all those exotic trackers and deliver such great outcome! |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Thanks guys. It's hard and honest work, and of course a tough fight with deadline each month. Still, the experience and the new bits I learned is priceless here.
Early next year we want to release all tracks in a musicdisk format, and hopefully we'll have time to write an article of each editor too.
Spidey, December is SID-Wizard's month, you can still join us! :) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Ladies and gentlemen, The C64 Grand Tour Challenge is now officially over.
December's releases:
Spider Jerusalem: Late To The Party
NecroPolo: Lilac And Gooseberries
Vincenzo: Stomp Da Bonk
Event page: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge - December 2021
I hereby would like to thank you to everyone who joined and composed a music. It was a hell of a ride for sure, but as proven, it's definitely possible to compose a music per month, with a different editor per month.
The result is 27 tracks overall, it's a nice mixture of, basically everything.
Hope you felt entertained during the whole year, thank you for your attention.
Sincerely,
Vincenzo, NecroPolo, da Blondie, Jammer and Spider Jerusalem |
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Xiny6581
Registered: Feb 2004
Posts: 72 |
What a great compo you guys pulled off!
Happy composing and keep on exploring the weird editors and make them come alive again ;) |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5031 |
wow this year went by fast, remember just like yesterday reading your first post here, congrats with going through with it and dragging others along the way! :) |
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Jammer
Registered: Nov 2002
Posts: 1293 |
Deepest respect! :) |
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CreaMD
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 3036 |
Hat off and thumbs up! |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Thanks guys for the cheerful comments.
Yeah, it wasn't easy but it definitely worth the effort.
Some of you asked, will there be a Grand Tour Challenge in 2022 too?
Well, I'm not going to do it again and won't organize it either. However, I'm happy to help if someone else takes the challenge (pun intended) to do it. All my experience and knowledge is yours, just shout and I'll help. |
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spider-j
Registered: Oct 2004
Posts: 452 |
Again: what a nice idea. Had some time this evening – wife took care of our kid – and listened through all of the releases in one session. Really interesting to see what you guys did with what tracker.
It's a pity that there weren't more people involved (critical look at myself in the mirror). Would be really interesting to see what all the SID musicians come up with in the different trackers.
I guess "The idea is good, but the world not ready yet" :-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrHKaQ7iGQ4
I feel like cheating delivering just one tune in my "feel-good" tracker.
TLDR: great event! Keep on rocking in the free world! |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
I'm impressed that you made it. Well done! Even though not many people took part of it as participants, I'm sure a lot of people enjoyed the concept as spectators. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Spoiler alert: there's a video in the making, NecroPolo and me talking about the challenge and editors in detail, we'll reveal our scoreboards too.
Spoiler alert 2: there's also a musicdisk in the making, it will include all the released tracks on 1 disk, playable on a nice interface. |
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Pararaum
Registered: Sep 2018
Posts: 11 |
I am looking forward to the video and the music disk! I really can not wait, if the video is first then please do not forgot to add the link in the music disk... |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Look what's arrived: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge Musicdisk
A musicdisk with all the 27 music from GTC2021. Enjoy!
(editing of the talk about the challenge+editors is WIP, will be released later) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
NecroPolo and Vincenzo talk about the GTC2021 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTW8akeQsOk
Expect a 2 hours long, detailed but not too detailed friendly chat about Commodore64, music editors and more. |
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Frantic
Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1633 |
Thumbs up for the video. It was interesting to hear about the various editors. I might actually look into Sid Wizard at some point. |
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DeMOSic
Registered: Aug 2021
Posts: 126 |
Quote: Thanks guys for the cheerful comments.
Yeah, it wasn't easy but it definitely worth the effort.
Some of you asked, will there be a Grand Tour Challenge in 2022 too?
Well, I'm not going to do it again and won't organize it either. However, I'm happy to help if someone else takes the challenge (pun intended) to do it. All my experience and knowledge is yours, just shout and I'll help.
Ah damn. I remember you told me this on discord. i hope someone takes the challenge of comtinuing the project. Maybe i may do it but i probably wont. |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Fix for old 1541U's and firmware of the GTC2021 musicdisk is avilable here: The C64 Grand Tour Challenge Musicdisk - 1541U1 fix |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Should rather fix the firmware than emufixing perfectly working C64 stuff |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
I guess, you should tell it to Gideon...? Looks like there's not much chance that he'll ever work on it anymore. So best option is still to fix Sparkle. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
No. You should report a bug if you care. Emufixing only makes people not fixing bugs. Stop it, please. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting GroepazNo. You should report a bug if you care. Emufixing only makes people not fixing bugs. Stop it, please. Don't be a nag. 1541U1 is at end of life and not supported any more. This in itself is a sucky move and should be considered by anyone thinking about purchasing from there (again).
The firmware still cannot be expected to be (officially) fixed, so the better option (and nicer to the users) is to work around the issue in software.
1541U2, different story. |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
You _can_ fix the firmware. Ports of the 2.x firmware exist. That noone gives a shit is the problem.
And no, some emu thing being EOL and no more supported is no excuse. *EVERY* emu thing will be at some point. You'll be emufixing forever, and encourage ppl to not fix emulators. Please don't. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Quoting GroepazYou _can_ fix the firmware. Ports of the 2.x firmware exist. That noone gives a shit is the problem. From Release id #189130 : Krill's Loader, Repository Version 184
Quoting Count Zerotried the testloader from the archive with 1541U1 and firmwares 1.72beta (WVL) and 2.6d from https://www.obliterator918.com/1541-ultimate-firmware/ dating 2013.
Both show the failure.
Anybody aware of more recent U1 versions to try? Can you link a firmware version that works, preferably with all mentioned loaders? :) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
How does it matter? I'm not even looking, i have working emu thing :)
Instead of emufixing for ancient broken stuff, you should rather break the current stuff - so it gets fixed eventually. |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Well, i still keep seeing that "buggy firmware" nag message in recent demo compos. =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
Sure. but while this is funny, it doesnt push ppl to fix anything. |
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Sparta
Registered: Feb 2017
Posts: 40 |
I agree with Groepaz. We shouldn't (and shouldn't be expected to) emufix our loaders. In reality, however, people expect everything to work on their old or newer hardware because others work too. If not, then it must be a "loader issue" and they post lengthy comments under the affected release (and then ignore PMs requesting specifics about the "issue"). Others of course are more willing to help. :)
From my point of view, I want people to try and use my loader so I can't leave these issues unhandled, otherwise all people would remember is "ah, that's the loader that failed in that prod..." So I have no choice but to retrofit it to please as many users as possible. Fixing the buggy firmware is way beyond my skills. On the other hand, in this specific case, replacing a single unintended opcode in the drive code which was only left there as an oversight on my part was not a big deal. The loader works either way, so I really don't mind, especially because all previous versions of Sparkle had it this way. :) |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Yes, same reason why i kept in the work-arounds.
Maybe Sparkle should also come with a nag message once it has detected those firmware issues.
I have it on good authority that Gideon became aware of similar 1541U2 issues (same emulation bugs after a regression) only after that message popped up at various occasions and people started to report.
(But then at least one person said "but i did run the latest firmware, and it still loads, so somebody goofed up with that check routine". Oh my, can't expect everyone to have working logic circuits in their brains.) |
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Ninja
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 407 |
Full illegal opcode support for the 1541U was the reason I did 1541-Testsuite 13 years ago. It already identified problems back then, but Gideon was prioritizing other features first. Maybe now it is the time? (Note to self: I should update the entry to at least fix the links) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
And your testbench has been integrated into the VICE testsuite for many years - which i am running against U64 (and thus U2) after every firmware release and report back bugs. Lets say the process has become increasingly difficult and i lost a bit motivation to even care. (It is obviously much more interesting to add more fancy features than hunting those last few tricky bugs). |
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Krill
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2856 |
Let's just make a game that everybody and their dogs want to play, and put things all over the place that require correct emulation. =) |
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chatGPZ
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 11154 |
I can already hear the whining about it not working in VICE 2.4 :=) |
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vincenzo
Registered: Sep 2003
Posts: 79 |
Guys, this supposed to be a thread about music and the conversation steered into a very different territory. It might make more sense to open another thread with the 1541U and related loader issues. |
