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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
Useless(?) facts about sids
Do you know any facts about certain SIDs that is fairly unknown to others, like "That tune is tuned in A=442"?
Well, post it here...
The Thief (he eats beef) is tuned to (or at least sounds like) A=442.
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Ha, I always knew there's something fishy about this tune, but couldn't put my finger on it! Thanks McMeatLoaf, finally I can find sleep again...! ;-) |
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Hate Bush
Registered: Jul 2002
Posts: 465 |
wow, you have THE ear. i wish i could hear the difference |
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dalezy
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 476 |
i wish i knew what this means after all.
is this a perfect pitch/tune-matter, or am i totally out of the game here? =) |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
Jeroen Tel corrected some arpeggios in Turbo Outrun, for the HVSC crew. The tune in hvsc is not 100% the same as in the game. |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Some of the Dutch Breeze tunes by Reyn were initially composed for System 3's Turbo Charge. There, I've said it, the S3 word. |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Yeah, thanks. That made my day. :) |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
Quote: i wish i knew what this means after all.
is this a perfect pitch/tune-matter, or am i totally out of the game here? =)
You're completely right. I've got "perfect" pitch (although not THAT perfect), although it's only accurate to around 25 cents (unless it's tuned to something like A442).
Listen to Textuality (and more); It's around 20 cents too sharp, around A=445 (it uses BFJOSX-freq, most sids use CGKOTY or AEINRW, some use DHLQV (check Galway's tunes)). |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
darn, tune 3 of that No-XS sid sounds familiar. I think that's an Uncle Tom (or Zaphoid or so, Future Composer thingy) MOD mix. Maybe one of you knows?
Cool sounds in that one anyways.. |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
could you make clear what is a=445, and cgkoty, and the rest? :) /me dumb for music |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
Quote: could you make clear what is a=445, and cgkoty, and the rest? :) /me dumb for music
Some information below.
Note that I'm kinda guessing, so it may not be correct :/
CGKOTY: It's the freq-table from the C64 PRG as far as I know, it's A=440 on NTSC (America) computers, but it's detuned on PAL (Europe) computers (something like 60-64 cents, or A=424).
AEINRW: A=440 on PAL computers.
BFJOSX: Seldom used, I think it's A=445 (on PAL).
DHLQV: Used by e.g. Galway and Zardax. Detuned ca. 30 cents on PAL AFAIK. I'm not sure if this is correct though.
If you're wondering what the heck I'm talking about:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#History_of_pitch_sta..
:)
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j0x
Registered: Mar 2004
Posts: 215 |
Oswald: This post illuminates the topic from a slightly different angle:
http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=10&topicid=29489#29530
Edit: Also note the correction in http://noname.c64.org/csdb/forums/?roomid=10&topicid=29489#29532
Anorak?
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Does anyone know what these terms (CGKOTY, AEINRW, BFJOSX and DHLQV) actually stand for?
The first two letters seem to pin-point a 5th interval - A to E (INRW), B to F (JOSX), D to H (LQV) and C to G (KOTY)..
/me is confused!
EDIT: in european terms B is Bb, and H is B (non euro-term)..
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cadaver
Registered: Feb 2002
Posts: 1160 |
It's the letters one sees when hex/ascii-dumping the frequency table memory region in a monitor, right? |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
ah.. wow, I thought higher science was involved here, AEINRW. |
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Laxity
Registered: Aug 2005
Posts: 459 |
Damn.. That's it, isn't it?.. |
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Stryyker
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 468 |
It is that simple :) |
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Turtle
Account closed
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 70 |
And I didn't dare to ask... pfffffff!
But how comes that a handful types of freq-tables cover most sids ever done? Is it because of the use of the available editors? How does the pitching affect the mood of the tune? Do any phsychological studies about that exist? Did I just use the wrong pitch that I didn't become an über-composer?
** Have to detune my guitar ** |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
Another useless(?) fact:
/GAMES/S-Z/Soldier_One.sid is 1x except for the pulse width, which is modulated around 14x AFAIK, around 20x in subtune #13. :) |
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Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
McMeatLoaf, I just listened to Soldier One and it sounds more like plain single-speed. Perhaps you mixed it up because of frequent use of layered sounds? (Or perhaps it's my ears, as I have not checked the code.)
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Nah, it's probably analog to Fred Gray's (or was it Matt's?) player, which in the same playcall changes the pulsewidth lownibble several times, kind of like
lda pulsewidth
sta $d402
dec $d402
dec $d402
dec $d402
rts
Which would equal a 4-speed pw-change in the same playcall. Kind of what makes the Fred Gray sounds so peculiar. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
While I'm going through some old emails in search for something, I thought I'd share some interesting observations that fit into this thread:
Galway's Wizball score is 4x throughout, wow!
The Microprose soccer tunes are either 2x or (get this!) 0,4x CIA timed, obviously to save as much rastertime as possible. :-)
Mark Cooksey's old Paperboy soundtrack already made use of multispeed, it's 3x/1x/1x/1x/2x in the order of the subtunes.
/MUSICIANS/D/DOS/Zu_Ende.sid is a 10x tune. The drumset in this is really exceptional!
/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne/Nightmare.sid
AFAIK the only multispeed tune in HVSC (it's 9x!) that we couldn't get to play back correctly with CIA timers to maintain backwards compatibility with sidplay1 based players. No matter what we tried, it just wouldn't sound right. In the end we took the original VIC setup and made it RSID.
/MUSICIANS/B/Bakewell_Dwayne/Chaos_2000.sid
Shouldn't be a secret to most of you, but this one is driving goosepimples up my skin everytime I hear it again! 8x!
/MUSICIANS/B/Blues_Muz/Gallefoss_Glenn/GRG_in_Cyberspace.sid
Another exceptional multispeed tune playing at 8x. These pulse sweeps are teh shit!
/MUSICIANS/D/DaFunk/Fourteen_Towers.sid
A 14x tune, how odd! The high multiplier unfortunately doesn't really pay out effectwise, I think.
/MUSICIANS/F/Fanta/Mr_Big_Beat.sid
Ah, I remember the Breakpoint party this was played at. Made a great impact on me played over the quite good PA. It's 3x, for those who care.
Some great examples of multispeed mastership of the 6581 by Jeff shouldn't be missing in a compilation like this:
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/8th_Frame.sid (8x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/12-speed_tune.sid (12x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Anal_ogue.sid (4x!!!)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Cave_of_Rave.sid (8x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Dick-Lotion.sid (8x, teh title!!!)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Dunes_K_Remix.sid (4x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/House.sid (8x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Ishmael.sid (8x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/La_Samba_pasta_bolognese.sid (8x)
/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Sunset-Jam.sid (8x)
That should be it for now. |
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Wisdom
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 90 |
DOS' Zu Ende is one of the rare tunes that really make a good use of multi-speed. Apart from the drums, the lead sound that comes in after the first minute or so is really fantastic. |
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Conrad
Registered: Nov 2006
Posts: 849 |
Talk about mega multispeed:
MUSICIANS\J\Julian_Jaymz\63_speed_music_1.sid
ALIH states that voice 1 plays at 63x, and v2 and v3 play at 9x.
He must be kidding, right? :D |
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Oswald
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 5095 |
how could you forget this masterpiece?:)
http://www.c64.org/HVSC/MUSICIANS/J/Jeff/Donald_Dick-Duck.sid |
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No-XS
Registered: Mar 2002
Posts: 79 |
Quote: darn, tune 3 of that No-XS sid sounds familiar. I think that's an Uncle Tom (or Zaphoid or so, Future Composer thingy) MOD mix. Maybe one of you knows?
Cool sounds in that one anyways..
Tune 3 is just tune 1 playing slower. Are you sure you didn't just listen to tune 3 after tune 1 and 2? If you did, it should sound familiar.
Oh yes, it takes me at least 7 years to find posts on this forum! ... :) |
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Hein
Registered: Apr 2004
Posts: 954 |
Quote: Tune 3 is just tune 1 playing slower. Are you sure you didn't just listen to tune 3 after tune 1 and 2? If you did, it should sound familiar.
Oh yes, it takes me at least 7 years to find posts on this forum! ... :)
Ahyes, you're right, of course. Love the slow version, though. |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2250 |
The speedbyte of
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/W/Whittaker_David/Street_Surfer...
is at $c14b, writes to $c237 and can be modified while playing
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/G/Groepaz/Aurora_Remix.sid
is the only .SID I know of that opens top/bottom border when starting via init adress :) |
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TheRyk
Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 2250 |
Just BTW is there any other triple speed song apart from:
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/A/Agemixer/Freestyler.sid |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
Hi TheRyk, check out these:
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/Girl_from_North_Caroli..
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/In_My_Time_of_Dying.sid
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/Lullaby_for_Violaine.s..
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/Sahara_Takeover.sid
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/There_Was_a_Light_That..
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/R/Randall/Vinyl_Headz.sid
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/T/Tjelta_Geir/Triple_Velocity.sid
http://hvsc.perff.dk/MUSICIANS/N/Nagie_Sascha/Xpl_Triple.sid |
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SIDWAVE
Account closed
Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238 |
sids by John A. Fitzpatrick, is directly using this text string "music and player by john a. fitzpatrick" as a pointer to note table.
so if you change the text, the music breaks. |
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Zyron
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 2381 |
Cool trivia! |
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iAN CooG
Registered: May 2002
Posts: 3198 |
Quote: sids by John A. Fitzpatrick, is directly using this text string "music and player by john a. fitzpatrick" as a pointer to note table.
so if you change the text, the music breaks.
I just tested them all, none of them uses the text. i first tried by relocating them with sidreloc, no text was read or changed. then i filled all the text with 00, nothing changes in emitted notes, verified with siddump and sidknown. |
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Steppe
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 1510 |
00 is probably too easy. Replace the text with "ripped by rambones" or something. ;-) |
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cryptoboy
Registered: Jun 2014
Posts: 2 |
Quote: Do you know any facts about certain SIDs that is fairly unknown to others, like "That tune is tuned in A=442"?
Well, post it here...
The Thief (he eats beef) is tuned to (or at least sounds like) A=442.
How's this for a useless SID fact: The game music from Super Huey (by Paul Norman), if played on a piano, would contain no black notes (in other words, it's a completely diatonic composition). I discovered this when transcribing the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBXRuOXk5T0 |
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Soren
Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: |
A masterpiece triplespeed tune by MSK:
C64Music/MUSICIANS/M/MSK/Land_of_Illusion.sid |
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McMeatLoaf
Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 108 |
There are some songs using $44/$45, pulse with ring-mod. Is there any difference in sound at all compared to the usual $40/$41? |
