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Forums > C64 Composing > 6581/8580
2020-06-27 00:59

Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 18

Is there some good reason SID music is not released with both 6581/8580 versions? Most tunes are only released for 8580 and some sounds play to low on 6581. Is there some way to convert 8580 tracks to increase the volume of the sounds that are too low on the 6581?
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2020-07-30 11:59

Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 18
Would it make sense to have two official csdb 6581/8580 categories or tags? So one can filter and search on them?
2020-07-30 16:03

Registered: Jul 2003
Posts: 331
Quote: Would it make sense to have two official csdb 6581/8580 categories or tags? So one can filter and search on them?

maybe no need for tags, since tunes got that in PSID info.
2020-07-30 16:11

Registered: Mar 2020
Posts: 18
Aha, so csdb could automatically fetch that from hvsc and display it?

Edit: I just realized it is displayed on the sid page, but not the release even if it is a music release.
2020-07-30 16:18
iAN CooG

Registered: May 2002
Posts: 2869
advanced search for sidmodel. Be aware that not all tunes have a known intended sidmodel set.
2020-07-30 18:11

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 865
Quoting acrouzet
I wonder why nobody else has done that since then (to my knowledge).

In addition to the ones already mentioned by others, I recall the game Madness /Rainbow Arts/Chris Huelsbeck had filter adjustment.

Also in Delta/Thalamus/Rob Hubbard (Title Tune only) the last options "FX" might refer to filter value, not sure though, might also just add an option resulting in totally different tune ^^

And yes, it _was_ indeed rare :)
2020-07-30 23:18

Registered: Apr 2013
Posts: 51
@TheRyk: My main concern is that even though the user had the possibility to adjust the filter, it was still his subjective choice that didn't necessarily reflect composer's concept. (If it would be possible to examine filter curve of each particular SID6581 and automatically re-adjust it via cutoff offset to the expected sound, that would mean a lot.)
2020-07-30 23:40

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 9828
Then again, when you like what you hear, how does the composers concept matter?
2020-07-31 06:21

Registered: Dec 2001
Posts: 138
Slightly off-topic, but if you are unfortunate to own 6581 that is too dark (filters too much) you can try to compensate it by changing filter caps to lower value, like 470pF to 330pF, or even to 270pF. Be sure to use high quality matched pairs for best results. Commodore didn't care much about the high-quality part so filter nonlinearities are part of the wrong kind of filter caps used by Commodore, ceramic vs plastic film ones.

And for the topic, game Raid over Moscow also includes filter compensation menu :)
2020-07-31 22:00

Registered: Mar 2009
Posts: 865
@OT yeah the board environment can have a great impact, but do we really want to go there in this fred? :)
2020-08-01 01:27

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
If you want to find a fitting filter curve on a per-composer or per-tune basis, you could SIDdump the entire tune(s) (assuming that the same 6581 was used in all tunes), listing and sorting all the cutoff register values on a per-frame basis, mapping these (cutoff value->filter curve->cutoff freq) then picking the filter curve with the largest standard deviation of log(cutoff freq).

Or you could list the highest note filtered with a certain cutoff value (say freq $1000 at cutoff value $10), picking a filter curve where the cutoff freq at that register value doesn't go below that note (or 0.5x the note frequency or whatever).

Note that neither of these tricks work very well for David Dunn's tunes.
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