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Forums > C64 Composing > timeline of SID achievements
2009-04-08 11:51

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 136
timeline of SID achievements

I'm looking for a timeline of SID achievements. Does this exist? A list of important software (trackers and non-trackers, midi-sequencers and midi-slaves, sample-players and "drum machines", generatives, remix-tools, etc) and SID-tricks (playing digi-stuff, multispeed, hardrestart, etc). Who, where, when, how, why. I think a timeline over these things would be important to put together, if it doesn't already exist.

(I work on a timeline of chip music in general here: chipflip.wordpress.com/timeline. It is far from finished, of course. Suggestions are very welcome)

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2009-12-08 15:29

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 136
For those interested, I just started a wiki on 'soundchip hacking' here: http://8bitcollective.com/wiki/index.php/Soundchip_Hacking

Feel free to add, edit, link, blink, donk, beep!

2010-01-07 11:13

Registered: Feb 2005
Posts: 18
@jan harries
First demo to detect 6581/8580 was 2nd Reality C64 version

no, the frist was in mathematica 1995
KB/Tom/Rfx have found out in summer95 that a register looses his data faster. i meeted this time quiss in munich, and KB came over with this "bug". later, zorc and I've diskussed that, tested it at a bunch of different sid chips (only one time on felidaes c128 the routine was wrong, at 9 of 10 chips he got correct results) and decided to be the first group who uses this and i have made two versions of the first song.
(together with the first floppydisc side detection :) )
regarding to our experience with the failed c128 sid detection (it was a old sid chip) we setted the possibility to ovveride our automatic detection in the beginning of the trackmo.

i am pretty sure there existed documentation in some form long before 1996, atleast basic stuff like the new mixed waveforms and different filter characteristics, i remember reading about it in some mags etc.

the problem is not that we not all knowed the differences, the problem was, how to find it out technically, not trough listen and hearing what you got out ;)
i seriously thought about sampling the 31' waveforms to find out if it is a new or old sid.
the task for finding the model was born by my heavily used filter and waveforms which are not known by the old sid, so we searched for an solution.
thats why we came up with the idea to make a sid detection.

Could add first 2 channel sid samples with variable play speed, either Netherworld by YIP or some MON tune perhaps?

this was definitivly invented by ReflexTracker
Reflex-Tracker V1.1
the first song (made by me in assembler...) was the digi endpart of cafe odd in 1993
Café Odd
the tracker was build one year later, because i needed some time to design the interface and zorc programmed that tool nicely :)

i know that because i have had have a very harsh disussion with syndrom/tia in spring93 about digis and the possibility to set volumes for samples. he claimed it would be absolute impossible.
later i meet ZORC/RFX and we discussed that problem and zorc programmed a digi-playroutine which was able to set volumes for samples (oh, and have a second channel, hehe).

btw, it was NOT the first 2 channel digiroutine, and it was NOT the first digi-volume routine.
it was the first which could all things together:
-2 channels
-4 volumes
-different AND variable play speeds of both channels each

2010-01-07 16:27
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
Turbo Outrun has digi volume, or so it sounds.. (tom toms in the beginning, and in some breaks)

About who invented arpeggio, Martin Galway told me he is sure he was the one, namely with Kong Strikes Back.

It's also the first i remember..
2010-01-07 17:10

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
Quote: Turbo Outrun has digi volume, or so it sounds.. (tom toms in the beginning, and in some breaks)

About who invented arpeggio, Martin Galway told me he is sure he was the one, namely with Kong Strikes Back.

It's also the first i remember..

Some tunes by Bob Landwehr (the P.A.S.S. demos) use arpeggios, and they're also from around 1984.
2010-01-08 05:35
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
Yeah, so when we format this thread into an article for VN mag (which i was asked to do), we have to mention both Landwehr and Galway. Kong Strikes Back is made in 1984 but the game is released in 1985..
2010-06-13 13:15

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
Regarding pulse-width, when were the first tunes made that utilized pulse-width-modulation? The earliest examples that I can find are from 1983 (several).
2010-06-14 12:23
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
Mcloaf: dont ask.. investigate! :D
2010-06-14 13:09

Registered: Mar 2003
Posts: 1561
@Jan: Yes.. The music routine in Turbo Outrun has two different digi volumes to chose from. Something like full volume and half volume, or so. At least that is how I remember it from when I had a peek into that routine some day quite a while a go. It might have been 100%, 50%, and 25% too. In any case, the volume change was achieved by some simple shifting/division by 2 and so forth. No scaling or more sophisticated sorts. The routine in Outrun Europe was similar, but that came after of course.
2010-06-14 15:37

Registered: Jan 2005
Posts: 94
Quote: Mcloaf: dont ask.. investigate! :D

GAMES/A-F/Artillery_Duel.sid #2
2010-06-14 16:57
Account closed

Registered: Apr 2002
Posts: 2238
Nice mcloaf.

but i dont think we will be able to finish such an article sum it up, for the next VN mag.

at least, i simply have very limited time atm.
i think its a project to do after the X party, and finish before new year eve.

as we go deeper, more and more pop up, so if it should be made properly, it should be done over a longer period.

if you just use this thread as a wall to dump all found info into, thats good - more will pop up before we try to form a usable document from it all.
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